HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Comm min 1995/05/24 MINUTES OF A REGULAR BUSINESS MEETING
OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF
CHULA VISTA, CALIFORNIA
Council Chambers
7:00 p.m. Public Services Building
Wednesday, May 24, 1995 276 Fourth Avenue, Chula Vista
ROLL CALL
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Tuchscher, Commissioners Fuller, Ray,
Salas, Tarantino, and Willett
COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Director Leiter, Assistant Planning
Director Lee, Principal Planner Griffin, Principal
Planner Bazzel, Assistant Planner Wolfe, Senior
Civil Engineer Thomas, Assistant Attorney Moore
MOTION TO EXCUSE - None
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Chair Tuchscher led in the pledge of allegiance to the flag and a moment of silence.
INTRODUCTORY REMARKS
Chair Tuchscher reviewed the composition of the Planning Commission, its responsibilities and
the format of the meeting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - Meetings of April 12 and May 10, 1995
MSUC (Fuller/Ray) 6-0 to approve the minutes of April 12, 1995. (Commissioner
Tarantino had not attended the meeting, but had read the minutes and felt he could vote
on them.)
MSUC (Fuller/Ray) 5-0-1 (Commissioner Willett abstained) to approve the minutes of
May 10, 1995.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - None
PC Minutes -2- May 24, 1995
ITEM 1. PUBLIC HEARING: PCS-95-05: TENTATIVE SUBDIVISION MAP FOR
PARCEL R-28, CHULA VISTA TRACT 95-05, INVOLVING DEVELOPMENT
OF 51 DETACHED CONDOMINIUM DWELLINGS AND LOCATED
WITHIN THE EASTLAKE GREENS PLANNED COMMUNITY - EastLake
Development Company
Assistant Planner Wolfe presented the staff report. Staff recommended approval of the tentative
subdivision map, in accordance with the conditions contained in the draft City Council
resolution.
This being the time and place as advertised, the public hearing was opened.
Mike Dunham, California Pacific Homes, 9191 Town Center Drive, Suite L-101, San Diego,
Vice President and Director of Operations, gave a slide presentation of a project they had done
in Orange County, and an overview of their company. He noted that in attendance were
representatives from their civil and planning engineering company, and the director of in-house
engineering to answer any questions the Commission may have.
Commissioner Willett, regarding the mitigation monitoring reporting program, asked if there was
a mechanism to ensure that the reporting program was implemented, and to whom it reported.
Assistant Planning Director Lee replied that the Initial Study referred to in the document was
part of the SPA amendment rezoning package that had taken place some time before. The
mitigation monitoring was relating to a noise analysis which was not applicable to this use. It
was basically monitored by staff.
Conunissioner Willett was concerned about drainage into the Poggi Canyon and the future
Orange Avenue. Mr. Lee stated he believed there were more detention basins planned that
would offer better drainage control.
Sr. Civil Engineer Thomas stated they were working with the developers of several projects to
have several significant detention basins in Poggi Canyon to reduce that effect to approximately
50% of what it would ultimately be. This particular project was a small component of the
watershed.
Commissioner Ray asked the rationale for supporting private streets in this subdivision. Mr. Lee
explained that the overall loop road system within the Greens (Greensview Drive) was the main
vehicular and pedestrian system tied to the overall EastLake trail system. In this case, staff did
not feel that the subject site was instrumental to the general circulation in the area, thus the
streets could be either private or public.
Commissioner Ray questioned the maintenance and the frequency of maintenance. Mr. Lee
replied that maintenance was covered more extensively by CC&Rs and the Department of Real
PC Minutes -3- May 24, 1995
Estate reports requiring a maintenance budget. He noted that the street section would be built
to City standards.
Commissioner Ray asked if the applicants were precluded from gating the subdivision. Mr. Lee
answered negatively, and stated there would be a gate at the entry point.
There was further discussion regarding gating projects. Mr. Lee explained that project gating
was on a case-by-case basis. There was no definite City standard regarding gating. It was
determined on the size of the project, the circulation pattern, isolation of the project, and other
issues.
No one else wishing to speak, the public hearing was closed.
MSUC (Fuller/Willett) 6-0 to adopt Planning Connnission Resolution PCS-95-05
recommending that the City Council approve the Tentative Subdivision Map for Unit 28,
Chula Vista Tract 95-05, in accordance with the findings and subject to the conditions
contained therein.
ITEM 2. PUBLIC HEARING: GPA-95-04: CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSAL TO
AMEND THE GENERAL PLAN LAND USE DIAGRAM FROM OPEN
SPACE TO RESEARCH AND LIMITED MANUFACTURING ON PROPERTY
LOCATED NORTH OF "L" STREET, BETWEEN INTERSTATE 5 AND THE
SAN DIEGO TROLLEY TRACKS - City Initiated
Principal Planner Bazzel gave the staff report, and noted that this was a clean-up amendment to
bring the current zoning into concert with the General Plan. The subject property did not have
a specific General Plan designation. Staff recommended that the Commission adopt Negative
Declaration IS-95-20 and approve the General Plan Amendment to Research and Manufacturing.
Commissioner Willett stated he had walked the area, and approved staff recommendation. He
questioned, however, the School District's concern that it the designation would remove the
District's ability to secure full mitigation from future development until the current SourcePoint
Study was completed. He was not aware of the SourcePoint Study.
Mr. Bazzel stated that the SourcePoint Study was a school mitigation study that the City and the
School Districts agreed to conduct using SANDAG as a third party consultant to analyze what
impacts commercial development and residential development have on school generation and
mitigation for new students in the entire Chula Vista area, both elementary and high school. A
final report should be coming forwarding during the next couple of months. As part of the
agreement between the City and the School Districts, the City had agreed not to bring forward
City-generated General Plan amendments that would have an impact on school facilities. The
School Districts had been contacted and they now understood the amendment and that there was
no project proposal at this time.
PC Minutes -4- May 24, 1995
Commissioner Ray asked if there was carpool parking in the subject area. Mr. Bazzel replied
that there was a paved area for park-and-ride but it is currently not in use. He did not think it
was equipped with any of the CalTrans surveillance equipment. It was one of the first park-and-
ride facilities in the area, and because of its location or remoteness, CalTrans may have
abandoned the site because of lack of use. Designation of the property would not affect its use
as a park-and-ride.
This being the time and the place as advertised, the public hearing was opened.
Mark Baker, Baker Enterprises, 15334 Bandy Canyon Road, Escondido, stated they were
the other property owners in addition to the City, and concurred with staff recommendation and
supported an affirmative vote.
No one else wishing to speak, the public hearing was closed.
MSUC (Willett/Salas) 6-0 to find that the proposed General Plan Amendment will have no
significant environmental impacts and adopt Negative Declaration IS-95-20 based on
information contained in the Initial Study for the project proposal and findings within the
Negative Declaration, and recommend that the City Council adopt the draft resolution to
amend the General Plan Land Use Diagram designation for approximately 4 acres located
at the northeast quadrant of Interstate 5 and "L" Street from Open Space to Research and
Limited Manufacturing.
ITEM 3. PUBLIC HEARING: PCA-94-05: CONSIDERATION OF AMENDMENTS TO
SECTIONS 19.58.225 AND 19.60.060 OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE TO
ALLOW FREEWAY-ORIENTED ELECTRONIC MESSAGE BOARD SIGNS
TO BE ESTABLISHED "OFFSITE" AT SELECTED LOCATIONS - City
Initiated
Principal Planner Griffin noted that in August 1994, the Planning Commission had considered
a previous version of this amendment, resulting from an agreement the City reached with the
auto dealers in the Auto Center on Otay Valley Road, which was to assist in the consideration
of a Municipal Code amendment that would allow a message board-type sign to identify the auto
center. At that time, some issues were raised by the dealers on the proposal to require 30% of
the time on the message board to be committed to public service messages. Subsequent to that
meeting, the City Attorney had also raised some issues as to the legality of some of the
conditions that were part of the previous amendment. As a result, it had not forwarded on to
Council.
Planning staff and the City Attorney's office have done more work on the amendment. Mr.
Griffin stated that the auto dealers supported the staff's recommendation. Since these would
only be allowed in the Otay Valley and the Town Centre redevelopment areas, staff took the
recommendations to both project area committees. The Otay Valley Road Project Area
Committee endorsed the amendment as proposed; the Town Centre Project Area Committee
recommended that there be established some minimum for public service and suggested 20%,
and also recommended that if any of the messages were in a foreign language, that that be
duplicated in English on the sign as well. He recommended endorsement by the Planning
Commission in accordance with Resolution PCA-94-05.
PC Minutes -5- May 24, 1995
Commissioner Ray asked if a minimum percentage is not set, does it leave it open to litigation
if one person gets more time than another. Assistant City Attorney Moore believed it was better
not to have a minimum percentage, because it would be close to regulating content of the
message on the sign. She thought it would be preferable not to have a set requirement.
Commissioner Ray was concerned that one public entity would have more time than another
which could create problems.
Principal Planner Griffin did not believe there would be a problem, since it had been reported
to him that its hard to fill the time.
Assistant Attorney Moore stated that she believed that the particulars of the agreement as to the
non-commercial sign was being left open for agreement down the road. Based on economics,
there is no problem if a business would rather pay for a two-minute message as opposed to a
one-minute.
Commission Ray said he was strictly concerned with the public service messages. Ms. Moore
said if that was based on the ability of the person wanting to have a public service message on
the sign, if that was something they would have to pay for, then that was not a problem. If it
was something that they didn't have to pay for, the way to get around that is to have a certain
amount of minutes available for public services at a given time and on the first-come first-served
basis. She thought that would alleviate that concern.
Commissioner Ray asked if the Commission voted to recommend a minimum, he was concerned
with the recommendation of the Town Centre PAC that a minimum of 20% be set, and that if
the message was displayed in a language other than English that the message be also translated
into English. Would the translated message be included in that minimum or in addition.
Ms. Moore said that with respect to the translation to the English language, there had been a
court case directly on point that held that a requirement that it be in English is considered a
content regulation and is unconstitutional. The Attorney's office would recommend that that not
be added as a condition.
Commissioner Salas stated that she strongly agreed with that, because if the reverse were true,
in reverse, if the message were in English would have to be translated to Spanish, as well.
Also, if a company was paying for that message, it was their right to have it in their preferred
language.
This being the time and the place as advertised, the public hearing was opened. No one wishing
to speak, the public hearing was closed.
Chair Tuchscher asked if there was some manner in which the City might be able to do free
public service announcements, and how staff would guarantee they would be done in a regular
manner without a certain a percentage. How do you have those public service announcements
available without setting some standard for time.
Mr. Griffin stated he would not argue against the Commission's desire if they wanted to
recommend staying with the present minimum or some other minimum. The way the system
was presently set up was that the operator of the sign would submit a program to the Community
PC Minutes -6- May 24, 1995
Development Director for approval in terms of that percentage and what kinds of messages
would be used during that time. That decision could be appealed to the Agency. It would be
the Commission's pleasure if they felt there was enough in that process to ensure that it would
be done properly. If not, they could recommend a percentage they felt was appropriate.
Chair Tuchscher felt that even at minimum, he would like to know how the person on staff
would be evaluating and making sure that those who solicit the use would be serviced.
Mr. Griffin stated that in terms of an outreach program, the City's public relations person
contacts community groups and public service operations to let them know of the availability of
the time and asking them if they want to have certain special events or messages displayed on
the signs. One of the Project Area Committees suggested that the electronic message board itself
advertise the fact that it was available for public service messages and give a number for them
to call.
Chair Tuchscher, assuming the message board was very successful and there were many entities
that wished to utilize the sign, without a percentage how would it be dealt with.
Ms. Moore stated that was an excellent point, and she thought it was contemplated that there be
an operational program. That was probably a legitimate concept that could be included in the
operational program. It seemed that Chair Tuchscher was talking about establishing a set of
guidelines, and that could definitely be included in the operational program which would be
approved by the Community Development Department.
Chair Tuchscher said that he would like to see what they were approving in the way of
guidelines. He understood the challenges legally with setting aside time, and the limits to time,
etc. He would like to know that the community is getting its maximum due out of a very visible
monument, and that it is not purely commercial but also utilized for the public good.
Principal Planner Griffin explained that when the minimum public service component was
originally adopted, it was associated with the on-site message boards which were limited to on-
site advertising. It was felt the user was being given a very special privilege; they were going
to be able to have a moving sign when no one else was within a half mile of them. In order to
receive that privilege, they should do something for the public as a whole; therefore, a minimum
was established. This was different in that it was serving the purposes of the redevelopment
area. Assuming it was resulting in the economic well-being of the commercial enterprise in
the redevelopment area, it was serving the public good by the City establishing the
redevelopment area and encouraging that sort of redevelopment.
Chair Tuchscher concurred. What he needed to feel comfortable was that the sign itself would
be used in some parameters for public service message as well. He did not feel comfortable
with that.
Commissioner Ray asked when the guidelines would be available; was it actively being pursued.
Mr. Griffin did not feel they were guidelines. If there were guidelines, they would be proposed
as part of the amendment. He felt it would be based upon guidelines that would be negotiated
during the acceptance of the operational program by the Community Development Director.
Those guidelines could vary from one sign to the next.
PC Minutes -7- May 24, 1995
Chair Tuchscher said that the Planning Commission was then giving approval without checks
and balances to some staff member who in the future may change with responsibilities maybe
going someone else in a different department. He thought some guidelines should be drafted so
that if the current person approving the signage left and it was passed on to someone else, at
least there would be some parameters as to what the Commission's intentions were at the time
of approval. He would be comfortable approving this with those guidelines coming forth in the
future.
Assistant Planning Director Lee thought it would be appropriate if the Commission felt there
should be some type of percentage. The feeling was that it was more economic driven, and if
there is a demand for various businesses to go on that sign, they would win out over the public
message issue unless there is some percentage established.
Chair Tuchscher concurred and stated that he felt there should be some priority placed on those
public service messages, and hoped that staff could figure out a way to bring back some
guidelines that the City Attorney could live with and which would make him feel more
comfortable.
Commissioner Salas had a concern about what constituted a public service message. She would
be more comfortable with a definition of what constituted a public service announcement; where
does it cross the line to being some that was political or offensive to a certain section of the
community.
Commissioner Ray echoed Commissioner Tuchscher's comments that without the guidelines the
Commission could see as a reference, there were no rules in terms of what they were approving.
He would feel more comfortable with the guidelines before them.
Principal Planner Griffin stated he did not know what a guideline would be unless it was a
percentage. Chair Tuchscher said that his comments revolved around time and assurance that
there was time for public service messages. He was not as concerned about the definition. He
was not confident that a percentage was defensible or the best way, because there were different
values of time. How would it be distributed?
Mr. Griffin suggested that the Commission, if they were comfortable that there would be
guidelines, could endorse the amendment as written, suggesting that a set of administrative
guidelines be developed by the Community Development Director that would be brought to the
Commission for their review.
Commissioner Ray asked the urgency in getting approval. Mr. Griffin said the sign may not
be built for several years, depending on development of the additional lot of the auto park and
Phase II of the auto park. If the Commission wanted to delay action, that could be done.
MS (Ray/Tarantino) to continue the item until those guidelines could come forward with
the resolution.
Commissioner Willett asked staff for clarification as to who determined what would go on the
sign. Mr. Griffin replied that as far as public service component, the Community Development
Director would have to approve the operational program for that component of the sign. The
commercial component would be determined by the sponsor of the sign. It would have to be
PC Minutes -8- May 24, 1995
made reasonably available to other commemial users in the area based upon a reasonable fee,
but they would determine the commercial component of the sign. The City would have to have
some sort of oversight to ensure that they were being given a reasonable opportunity to be on
the sign and that would be the administrative program that would be worked out.
Commissioner Willett said he supported Mr. Griffin's comment with a recommendation that an
operational plan come before the Planning Commission. He asked the Assistant City Attorney
Moore if she said to take out the 20%. Ms. Moore said her preference would be not to have
a percentage. She thought they would be getting into the realm of regulating the content of the
message on the board.
Commissioner Fuller concurred with Chair Tuchscher's comments regarding the public service
announcement portion. She thought administrative guidelines as to the amount of time was
appropriate, but she would be opposed to guidelines as to the content as to who would be able
to have a message and who wouldn't. It was up to the eye of the beholder as to what is and
what isn't public service.
Assistant Planning Director Lee, responding to an earlier question regarding premium time, said
that one thing the Commission might consider if they were looking at percentages was a
measurement of time; i.e., 15% per hour would be approximately 9 minutes per hour. That
would keep the public services announcement from being advertised only at low-premium times.
Commissioner Salas said that she noticed that on radio and t.v., public service announcements
were reserved for those times when there were no paid commercials. She asked if this would
be the same. Chair Tuchscher stated that Mr. Lee's solution for that problem seemed feasible.
Principal Planner Griffin stated that was part of the amendment being considered. The public
service component had to occur during each and every hour of the operation of the sign. Chair
Tuchscher said that because there was no percentage, there was a possibility that some hours had
zero and others had 100%.
Chair Tuchscher wanted to be certain the entities involved with the electronic message board and
sign understood that this was not reflective of their opinion relative to the validity of having that
sign. He was not sure what the Commission's vote would be, but he was confident that he was
endorsing the project as a whole. He needed further information to be confident with the public
service element.
VOTE: 6-0 to table PCA-94-05 until staff came back with administrative guidelines.
ITEM 4: MSCP REPORT
Director of Planning Leiter gave a report regarding the Multiple Species Conservation Program
(MSCP) Plan, which is a program dealing with several levels of governmental interests--the
federal, state, regional, and local governments in addition to private property owner interests and
interests of environmental groups. He gave a slide presentation giving an overview on the
regional plan, and discussed some of the major issues identified by staff. He asked the Planning
Commission for any questions or comments they might like to be forwarded to Council at their
meeting on June 13.
PC Minutes -9- May 24, 1995
Commissioner Willett stated that he chairs the Otay Valley Regional Park JPA which is working
on a concept plan. He thought it would be advisable to get member of MSCP as a voting
member of CAC. They did not have anybody familiar with this.
Mr. Leiter replied that the Multiple Habitat Planning Area for the MSCP was the basis for the
concept plan. They had staff from the jurisdictions directly working on the MSCP which was
working with Otay Valley Regional Park staff, and the boundaries of the concept plan as far as
the areas proposed to be preserved as part of the preserve system are intended to be basically
identical to the MSCP. It might be helpful to have some MSCP staff directly involved in the
discussions that the CAC would have. Since there was not an MSCP entity, staff working on
the MSCP might attend the meetings to advise them on issues that MSCP is dealing with. Mr.
Leiter thought that could occur.
Commissioner Willett asked if a member representative could attend the June 2 meeting in
Waller Recreation Center.
Commissioner Fuller asked, since this involves so many agencies and jurisdictions, how is it
going to be resolved? She questioned whether a resolution of intention that was to be approved
by the 12 local jurisdictions had been approved, and if Mr. Leiter saw ultimately all the issues
being resolved, so this Program would actually happen.
Mr. Leiter explained that the Resolution of Intention was approved by most of the jurisdictions.
The County of San Diego did not approve it. All of the other major jurisdictions entered into
that resolution. That was basically agreeing to participate and agreeing to plan. They were now
trying to get approvals of an actual plan. Each jurisdiction would approve a subarea plan which
would hopefully be consistent with the general plan of each jurisdiction. If each jurisdiction
approved a subarea plan and then some sort of agreement regarding a regional funding program,
each jurisdiction would actually enter into direct agreements with U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
and Fish & Game Authority regarding the permitting authority. It does not require a lot of
negotiation beyond this point in terms of planning.
Commissioner Fuller asked if the County is an entity that has to develop a subregional plan
themselves as a county? They seem to be in opposition to the total concept. Is it their fear of
lack of control since they are not in a position financially to have the control and finance it.
Mr. Leiter replied that the County has two concerns: 1) dealing with a lot of smaller property
owners who don't have plans for development of their properties--a logistical problem, a
property rights issue, and a legal issue. They can't adopt a plan that will be viewed as taking
away property rights without some kind of compensation. 2) Would probably be a greater need
for public funding participation in the County because it would probably be more difficult for
them to get exactions from the smaller property owners. The County would probably benefit
from a regional funding program. Probably a higher percentage of the land that would be
purchased through a regional funding program would happen in an unincorporated area, but all
would benefit because that's where the open space should be. Most of the open space in the
permanent preserve should be in the outlying areas in the County and urban development should
be happening in the cities. Mr. Leiter thought part of the County's concern was that they would
get left behind; this plan would be adopted; the urban jurisdictions would start to develop and
they would be holding the bag trying to figure out how to pay for this preserve system, with
PC Minutes -10- May 24, 1995
lawsuits from property owners. The County wanted to make sure that as a jurisdiction they
were treated equitably.
Chair Tuchscher said it seemed that during the Otay Ranch discussions, the County relied very
heavily on the MSCP as the answer and on several occasions tried to delay the whole project
on the eventuality of this becoming approved. It was interesting to hear that they are taking the
position they are regarding the MSCP and the whole program.
Commissioner Ray questioned the impact of Governor Wilson's legislation, which failed, to
lessen the restrictions based on the CEQA requirements relative to the Endangered Species Act.
If that were resurrected and passed, how big of an impact would that have on this plan, since
it deals with preserving the habitat and lessens preserving the habitat if the species isn't present
on that area.
Mr. Leiter stated that there were also proposals on the Federal Endangered Species Act along
the same lines. He thought a lot of those changes were working toward a multiple species
approach rather than a species-by-species listing approach and that that was where a lot of
Wilson's focus was on. It was also on doing some trade-offs, looking at some cost benefit
analysis of some of the issues rather than strictly looking at the biological issues. Those kinds
of changes would favor a multiple species approach versus the past procedure. Federal and State
agencies both are promoting this type of approach versus the old approach. San Diego County
is ahead of the curve by having a plan such as this.
Commissioner Ray asked if there had been any discussion relative to mitigation banking?
Mr. Leiter answered affirmatively, and said that mitigation banking is a way to deal with the
kinds of problems being talked about with the County. Some of the property owners in the
outlying areas could create mitigation banks, and as urban development occurs in the cities,
rather than having to do on-site mitigation, they could purchase credits or purchase lands in the
mitigation banks. Then some of the County's concerns would be answered. Some of the
property owners then instead of developing their property would be able to sell it at market value
as part of a mitigation bank. McMillin did that with Rancho del Rey SPA III--purchased land
in a mitigation bank in O'Neill Canyon. This program would formalize that and make it easier
to administer.
Commissioner Ray asked if Baldwin had any input on this.
Mr. Leiter stated that the Otay Ranch adopted plan was put into the draft MSCP. They've taken
the position along with staff's that that plan was well thought out and that there were careful
biological analyses that went into that. They have assisted in presenting that information and
have had meetings with U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and Fish & Game to go in detail regarding
the analyses and responding to some of their criticisms. There would be another meeting 5/25
to try to resolve that issue. Staff was surprised to hear from USF&WS that they had that level
of concern with Otay Ranch and that they were basically holding the whole MSCP Plan hostage
to resolve the Otay Ranch issues. They had input for five years on that, and staff and the Chula
Vista City Council had taken a strong issue on that, that the current plan should be defended.
Their comments would be taken, but much it was lack of information or lack of understanding.
PC Minutes -11- May 24, 1995
Commissioner Ray commented that he recalled that Kim Kilkenny had made a comment that
they weren't real supportive of mitigation banking. He asked if he was incorrect on that.
Chair Tuchscher believed Mr. Kilkenny had said that in the context of setting up a mitigation
bank on their particular property, because of the administrative challenges and some of the
unknowns associated with it.
Mr. Leiter said he thought there were suggestions by USF&WS that Otay Ranch set up
mitigation banks on some of the parcels that were proposed for development, particularly south
of the Lake, and Baldwin's feeling was that they were basically going to provide 14,000 acres
into a permanent preserve as mitigation for their project. They didn't want to be bound as well
to add another 1200 acres in a mitigation bank and have to try to market that as well over a
period of time. They felt they basically wanted to mitigate for their project, and the rest of it
should be able to develop.
Chair Tuchscher, regarding acquisition cost, stated that he understood the difference between
Case A and Case B and the associated costs, and was comfortable with the fact that those costs
are public/private and are an aggregate of costs. He questioned, regarding operation,
maintenance and management, the difference in the percentage in Case A development area base
and in Case B. With more acreage, he believed more intense management would be necessary.
Mr. Leiter replied that he would get that information for him.
Chair Tuchscher, referencing the percentage of habitat acres in San Diego, stated he would like
to see how that compared with the SANDAG Series 8 calculations relative to developable land.
He thought there was a huge differential between this habitat acreage and what is really
developable. Money should not be spent to acquire, manage, put them into this kind of intense
program, if working to preserve lands that aren't developable anyway because of slope, hillside,
or wetland or economics. Mr. Tuchscher would like to see how those acreage numbers
compare.
Mr. Leiter replied that he believed the 19,000 acre number was the shortage of acreage to meet
the Series 8 projection at the year 2015. This program would exacerbate that. It would take
out lands that were general planned, although the MHPA alternative had minimized the amount
of additional land being taken out of urban development. Unless the cities went back and
amended their general plans to allow more intense urban development, when nearing the years
2008 or 2009, based on the existing general plans, there would be a shortage with or without
MSCP.
Chair Tuchscher discussed total acreage and absorption through the year 2015, and the shortage
in almost every year based on demand. Some properties had been acquired for mitigation
purposes with a higher value as mitigation land rather than development land, because the
potential for development was very low. He was not sure it was a benefit to preserve land that
was not going to be developed anyway.
Regarding the 100% preservation, Chair Tuchscher felt it was not sensible. It would mean no
trails, phone lines, no antenna or something that might be just a minimal intrusion. He felt
access was important. Preserved land should be managed, but Mr. Tuchscher wanted people
to be able to access it and learn from it.
PC Minutes -12- May 24, 1995
Chair Tuchscher was concerned that the countywide map and the MSCP map differed regarding
the preserve area south of the Lake. He wondered if these maps were incorporated into the
overall MSCP, and how those were defined.
Mr. Leiter noted that errors would be found and staff would be cleaning up the map to more
accurately reflect the general plan. In the review process, it would be basically consistent with
the general plan.
Chair Tuchscher asked if it was incumbent upon each jurisdiction to do that?
Mr. Leiter answered affirmatively, and stated that each of the cities is directly involved in
reviewing and preparing the maps.
Chair Tuchscher was concerned about predatory birds, and asked that as a result of the efforts
to preserve the gnatcatcher, the cowbirds, for example, were being captured and exterminated.
He asked if there had been any discussion about those types of circumstances.
Mr. Leiter stated that if the Commission would like to forward any specific recommendations
or if they would just like to keep informed.
Commissioner Ray, relative to the lawsuit filed by Daniel Tarr, asked if the County approved
this as an overall plan, was it likely that they would challenge the City again?
Mr. Leiter stated that one of the issues in the lawsuit had to do with the relationship of the Otay
Ranch Plan with the forthcoming MSCP. As long as the City and County continue to reaffirm
their positions and, if in fact at the end of the line, the MSCP reflects the Otay Ranch Plan, then
that would reaffirm the City's positions. He understood that the case was reviewed already and
the City's position was affirmed. It is now under appeal, but it was his understanding that the
City's position was affirmed that this plan was consistent with the regional habitat planning that
was ongoing.
Commissioner Ray asked if that issue had been brought up with the County in relation to trying
to get them to approve this?
Mr. Leiter stated the County was in support of the Otay Ranch Plan, and they are in support of
the plan concept itself in the Otay Ranch area. The problems the County had more directly
effected the East County area, and some logistical problems they have in trying to plan such a
large area. He thought they were in line with the City on the Otay Ranch area. They hadn't
done the level of detail planning in the East County that had been done on the Otay Ranch.
Commissioner Ray asked if it was possible to approve pieces of the program.
Mr. Leiter replied affirmatively, and stated that was one of the things being worked on with the
County--to define subareas that they could act on now like Otay Ranch and San Miguel Ranch,
and then buy them some time to work on some of the outlying areas.
Commissioner Ray asked if it was anticipated that anything in the City of Chula Vista would be
impacted as a result of their hesitancy to approve the overall plan.
PC Minutes -13- May 24, 1995
Mr. Leiter said that as long as staff could work out some kind of phased implementation, the
City and the County were pretty much in line and they would not do anything that would unduly
delay the City, unless they didn't see any other way out.
Chair Tuchscher asked if without an MSCP Program, would it be fair to say that the federal
agencies would also get comfortable with the planning the City has done and probably permits
would be forthcoming relative to those major projects.
Mr. Leiter said that on Otay Ranch and San Miguel Ranch, if there are some major stumbling
blocks to MSCP, they would honor the commitments they had already made. However, on Otay
Ranch, that would have to be resolved. They still are not in agreement with the City regarding
Otay Ranch.
Chair Tuchscher thanked Mr. Leiter for the report.
ITEM 5. REPORT: FY 1995-96 PLANNING COMMISSION BUDGET
Assistant Planning Director Lee presented the Planning Commission budget, noting a reduction
of 26%. He noted it did not affect the Planning Commission directly; the reduction was in staff
overtime, postage, and supplies. The recommended budget was based on actual usage.
Commissioner Tarantino asked what happened if there was a need for the overtime and there
was no money. Could they do a budget transfer, or appeal to the Council.
Mr. Lee said budget transfers could be done, if approved by Administration. The requests are
handled individually. Regarding staff, there would be an option of bringing people forward with
compensatory overtime instead of overtime pay, or not bring those staff to meetings with
management having to present the items, spending mom time in preparation.
Commissioner Ray was concerned that the Commission would not get the present level of
service regarding Otay Ranch, etc. Mr. Lee assured him that it was included as part of the
management team and was not included in the overtime budget.
Commissioner Ray was concerned that staff would be more well versed on other projects than
management, and that some of the Commission's questions may not be answered by
management. Mr. Lee said that further in the year, if they found there were problems, they
would go forward to Administration with a request.
Commissioner Ray asked a person was to be at the meeting, could their hours be adjusted to
come in later during the day to make up that time. Mr. Lee said there were some options; the
Planning Department already had a flexible schedule.
Chair Tuchscher asked where the League of California Cities meeting would be held this year.
Mr. Lee believed it was in the Southern California area, possibly Anaheim. Chair Tuchscher
said there would be at least two new Commissioners, maybe three. He wanted to be sure the
new Commissioners had a chance to attend those meetings. He asked Mr. Lee if there was
enough in the budget to send three people. Mr. Lee answered affirmatively.
PC Minutes -14- May 24, 1995
Chair Tuchscher was concerned about mailing. In recent years the City Council had taken
action to expand the mailing, in addition to mailing to property tenants including apartments and
businesses. He suspected the mailings were 20 times more than they were six years ago. He
thought it was time to reel that back in, that it was inappropriate. It was one major item that
could be curtailed. He would look to staff how that could be handled in relation to a
recommendation to Council. It did not relate to the Planning Commission budget, but he felt
it was appropriate that the Planning Commission bring the issue up.
Mr. Leiter said that staff could bring back some basic information about the Planning
Department budget and some historical data at their next meeting, and the Planning Commission
could forward a recommendation over a minute action to the City Council on that particular
issue.
Chair Tuchscher asked if that could be an item on their agenda so they could take some action.
He also asked that staff give them a handle on how much return mail is received and what kind
of manhours are associated with assembling the mailing list. He suspected to track down
tenants, it is people out in the field as opposed to some list that exists. He would like some
general parameters to help them raise the issue with Council and ask them to take some action
relative to the total budget.
Mr. Leiter stated they would report to Council that the Planning Commission had reviewed the
budget and did not have any comments on it. There would be a workshop on the
Boards/Commissions budgets on June 14. Unless the Planning Commission is there to protest
it, staff would let them know the Planning Commission had no problems with it.
DIRECTOR'S REPORT
ITEM 6. UPDATE ON COUNCIL ITEMS
Assistant Planning Director Lee noted that the Council had continued the Covenant Christian
School item so that staff could look at some potential additional CPF sites, or meet with the
applicant and EastLake.
Also, Council would be interviewing for new Planning Commissioners on June 3.
Mr. Lee said that the regular workshop date of July 19 may have to be used for a special
meeting for the MCA theater proposal. He thought it would be a 7:00 meeting rather than a
5:30, since there had been extensive public notice proposed as far as the environmental and
project review. There were potential traffic impacts which extend to 1-805.
Mr. Lee reminded the Planning Commission that their next meeting was a joint meeting with
the GMOC, with dinner at 5:30 and the meeting following. Their regular Planning Commission
meeting would be at 7:00 with a short break between the two meetings. He thought the regular
meeting of June 14 was relatively light.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS - None.
PC Minutes -15- May 24, 1995
ADJOURNMENT at 9:25 p.m. to the Special Joint GMOC/Planning Commission Dinner
Meeting at 5:30 p.m. in Conference Rooms 2/3, and to the Regular Business Meeting of
June 14, 1995, at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers.
/2.
N'a~cy Rip(ey, Secretary
Planning Commission
(m:\homc\planning\nancy\pc95min\pc5-24. rain)