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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSafety Commission mins 1990/04/12 . . . ,. , MINUTES OF THE SAFETY COMMISSION MEETING CITY OF CHULA VISTA, CALIFORNIA Thursday, April 12, 1990 7:09 p.m. Council Chambers Public Services Building ROLL CALL MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice Chair Braden, Commissioners Arnold, Koester, Thomas MEMBERS ABSENT: Chairman Decker, Commissioners Militscher, Waller STAFF PRESENT: Hal Rosenberg, City Traffic Engineer; Frank Rivera, Assistant Civil Engineer OTHERS PRESENT: Sergeant Tom Schaefer, Ray Morris. Also, see attached attendance list. 1. APPROVAL OF MINUTES MOTION Approve minutes of the March 8, 1990 Safety Commission meeting. MSUC [Thomas/Koester] 3-0, Braden abstained, to approve the Minutes of March 8, 1990. Chairman Braden noted that there was one item [3b] that brought a number of individuals to the Safety Commission meeting, so it was decided to bring this item before the Commission as the first item of business. 3. NEW BUSINESS (3b) Request for speed control on Canvon Drive and Countrv Vistas Lane Frank Rivera, Assistant Civil Engineer, presented staff's report. Staff received a letter dated February 14, 1990, from Christopher Keifer and Family, residents of Country Vistas Lane. In his letter he requested that staff doing something to slow down the vehicular speed on Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive. In his letter he also requested that, possibly, stop signs on Country Vistas Lane at two intersections-- White Birch Drive and Cherry Hi1ls Lanenbe implemented to slow down vehicles. Canyon Drive and Country Vistas Lane are both residential colIector streets. The curb to curb width is 40 feet. The speed limit is not posted. It is a prima facia 25 mph speed limit, it is a residential zone. Radar speed surveys done on Canyon Drive had an 85 percentile speed of 36 and 37 mph. Radar speed 1 ,. . surveys done on Canyon were also in the 36/37 mph range. Traffic counts on these streets is approximately 1,785 vehicles per day. The 24-hour count shows that the average speed is approximately 33 mph. Most people are traveling over 30 mph. Staff is not recommending that the 25 mph speed limit be posted or the stop signs be installed at these two intersections of Country Vistas Lane for these reasonsn the California Vehicle Code book specifically states that on local street no more than 40 feet wide, or having more than one traffic lane in each direction, speed can be enforced by radar if the speed limit is an un-posted 25 mph. According to State law, the 25 mph speed limit, if it were posted, could not be justified since the traffic survey could not justify this speed. Any police officer enforcing the speed limit with the 25 mph sign in place would be guilty of enforcing a speed trap which is a misdemeanor. This is similar to the situation we have on Rutgers Avenue where we have the 25 mph speed limit, but no enforcement by the police officers is being done because the Engineering traffic survey cannot justify that low of a speed limit. If we were to post a speed limit on Country Vistas Lane and take into account that 85 percent of the motorists drive at a safe and prudent speed, the speed limit would be 30 or 35 mph. The design speed for the roadway is also at the 30 to 35 mph speed limit range. Staff therefore feels that to keep the speed enforcement in effect that the speed limit not be posted, that it remain a 25 mph prima facia speed limit. The accident rate on these streets is also very low. It is approximately one-half of the State average. When staff completed its study of the stop signs, it was shown that these locations did not have a significant amount of traffic coming out through the minor streets to justify stopping the traffic on Country Vistas Lane. Therefore, we could not justify those stop signs on Country Vistas Lane. . Consequently, staff is recommending that the Traffic Engineering Division or the Chula Vista Police Department continue to monitor the vehicular speeds on Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive and deny the request for the all-way stop on Country Vistas Lane. PUBLIC COMMENTS: . Christopher Kiefer, 1589 Country Vistas Lane, Chula Vista, 92002. I heard the report. I called the Traffic Engineer sometime before I wrote my letter and I was somewhat surprised, I wasn't really surprised, that the traffic averaged 85 percentile with 37 mph. That is 50 percent over the prima facia speed limit, which I think is quite excessive. I understand that the traffic coming off White Birch Drive and Cherry Hill Lane is not very great and I was told by the Traffic Engineer that the City could have some liability if there were a rear-end accident with seemingly unnecessary stop signs. My feeling on that is that the City may have a dollar liability there that they would have to payout if there were a rear-end accident, but I do not think the City wants to have to accept the liability of a child being run over by a car that is traveling down the street too fast. We see cars going down the street well over the 37 mph; 15 percent of the cars are over 37 mph and I would say some are going 50 or 55 mph and I think that is ridiculous. I have 2 . . . " three small children, we are afraid to let them play on the street, around the street; we are afraid to let them ride their bikes on the street and it [the speed] is just excessive. Those are my feelings. We feel that posting stop signs, something needs to be done to slow the traffic down. Frank Ballow, 572 Canyon Drive, Chula Vista, 92002. Thank you Commissioners for allowing me to speak. First of all, the main concern is for the kids' safety. The cars may be going 37 mph according to this study, but the ones I see, if I were to average them and I do not have a gun that tells me how fast they are going, but I have a good sense for speed and I say most of them are hauling butt and dangerously so. Beside my concern, it angers me just to live on that road. I have to be careful as I back out because they wi1l go right around, they are so impatient they do not want to slow down, many times. I could go on about my anger because it does upset me quite a bit, but I won't do that right now. The traffic there, right now, may not be real intense, although in my opinion it is. It seems to always be busy. It is going to get worst. It wil1 be exacerbated as the new homes become occupied all around Bonita. Canyon Drive and Country Vistas Lane is basically being used as a thoroughfare to get over to Canyon Drive so they can continue their speeding through there. But that does have a 25 mph sign posted, which I do believe helps considerably. Many of the people that I have conversed with about the traffic there and it is a topic of conversation that is pretty well discussed around that community. They believe that the traffic limit there is 35 mph because it is a wide street, there is no striping, no lines going down it, no indication of what the street is, many people think they are doing the speed limit of 35, and of course they are going to go a little faster because everybody goes faster than the speed limit, right. There have been some serious accidents on the street already. At least three that I know about. Some have been life threatening. There have been some near accidents that I also know about. My nephew had an accident where a Volkswagen just about came close to running him over. People are ready to get into fist fights because they are so angry. I think that is something that needs to be considered. Where I live in particular--it seems to level off--just up the road from me is a hill, down the road from me is another hill. They speed up to get up the hil1, they speed coming down the hill. At this juncture Frank Rivera described the locale that is being discussed: Country Vistas Lane is in an east/west direction, Canyon Drive is a north/south. It connects from Otay Lakes Road. To go from Otay Lakes Road to Corral Canyon you have to go through Country Vistas Lane and down Canyon Drive. The other streets in the area are not through streets and so the vehicular traffic tends to go down Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive in the morning and then in the evening it is reversed. Hal Rosenberg, City Traffic Engineer, noted it is a typical residential street that provides connection to the major streets. He also pointed out that the street is designed to the City Standards for that type of facility. It is designed to collect the 3 . streets from the neighborhoods and hence is designed 40 feet wide to provide for that safe movement of traffic. . James Hoke, 564 Canyon Drive, Chula Vista, 92002. I live just below where Canyon Drive intersects with Otay Lakes Road. As my neighbor Frank [Ballow] mentioned, it is a hill. Just over a year ago I was almost killed in my front yard. I do not know whether you have been down the street, but my house is set back off the street over 30 feet. My father and I were standing by the corner of our garage, away from the street, we hear skid marks, looked up just in time to take about one step to get out of the way and a car impacted the side of my house, blew off the gas meter--it was only a miracle that it did not blow up the house because it pushed everything through the wall into the garage--and almost hit us at the same time, almost killing three of the four occupants in the two-seater car. These were high school kids coming down the hill. The police report showed that at the start of the slide when the driver started skidding he was doing in excess of 66 mph. That was when the driver had started sliding, he had lost control of the car before that. He almost impacted head-on with another vehicle before he went into the skid. My point being, I almost died on a street that is straight and level, nice 40 foot wide street, in the middle of the afternoon, about 3:30 p.m. and I tell you that if it happens to you once you'l! appreciate it too. Since then I have many times called the Chula Vista Police Department trying to get radar police out there on the street. A few times they have obliged, they even tell me they do not have enough time to cover all the streets, but when they get the chance they come down there. They park in front of my house because when vehicles come up they hill they do not see them [the police] until it is too late and when they come down the hiJI they don't seem them until it is too late. I have personally set out there with these police officers, watched them on radar clock these people going 40, 41, 42 mph and they don't even ticket them. They say there are no kids on the street, we give them 15 mph over the speed limit and because there are no kids we cannot real]y justify giving them a ticket because it might not hold up in court and something about the survey of the street. I disagree with the City survey of the street also. I do not think they surveyed it enough or as often as they should because it is quite a hazard out there. I almost witnessed an accident tonight, a very near col]ision. I have talked to people who live in Bonita Highlands, which is down Corral Canyon. They live in the Bonita Highlands area and they use Country Vistas Lane off Corral Canyon to go to Canyon Drive to get to the shopping center that is right at the top of the hiJI at Otay Lakes Road and Canyon Drive, right near East "H" Street. They tel] me flat out, we go through there because it is a short cut, we don't have to put up with the stop lights on the other streets. If they are using it for a short cut the only way we are going to slow them down is if we put some stop signs in there. If I understand what he said about the rules and regulations about whether or not they can site somebody and it being a speed trap, then do not post the speed but put some stop signs in because that wiJI stop them. If they are inconvenienced enough that they do not want to use it as a short cut then maybe they wiJI slow down or the major of this traffic will bypass this street. . 4 . Greg Fay, 448 Sandy Creek Drive, Chula Vista, 92002. ] have been a police officer and ] am currently a police lieutenant, having been working for 15 years and ] just moved into this area. Using the schematic [overhead viewgraph] he pointed out Crest View, pointed out the downhill direction of Country Vistas Lane, 4 or maybe 3 percent grade; Canyon Drive downhill, about a 3 percent grade. There are a lot of cross streets all along here. ] have had three near collisions from people passing me on the left while] am signaling to turn left on to my street. Today when we were on our way over here a guy came down Canyon Drive and almost hopped across the street toward us, he was going so fast that he almost hopped the street into my car. This place is a very unsafe road. If you have not been out there and driven it, go out there and drive it and then you come back and tell us that you do not need stop signs at all those intersecting streets. ] agree 100 percent you cannot enforce the speed out there. But you can cut down the speed by putting in stop signs and you can enforce the stop signs. There is no prima facia problem, there is no problem with speed surveys or anything else. But you have to get some stop signs in there or you are going to have some people killed. My daughter will be up here to speak and you can see what happens to people when they get hit with cars. . Leslie Cavagnero, 1551 Country Vistas Lane, Bonita, 92002. ] agree with what everyone else has said here tonight. We, four that were notified, went out Saturday and Tuesday and talked to all the neighbors and we have a petitionn] don't know if petitions do too much, but at least it shows you there are a lot of concerned people out there. What the majority of people have talked about, we would like to have a yellow stripe going down Canyon Road from Otay Lakes Road to Via Hacienda and preferably down to Canyon Drive. When people are speeding down that street, they cut way over and there have been a lot of near head-on collisions. We are in favor of stop signs at all the intersections. We would like speed limit signs, but] am not sure how this works with the radar enforcement. ] am interested in getting the Smart unit. ] am trying to get hold of Sergeant Schaefer about getting the Smart unit on our street. ] saw one on East "J" where it has the speed limit and it says you are now traveling at this. It makes people a little bit more aware of how fast they are really are going. The Rialto Homes that are being constructed by McMillin at the end of Country Vistas Lane. There are going to be 103 more homes up there in two years. There are going to be another few hundred cars traveling up and down these streets every day and] am wondering why when they designed the streets, Country Vistas Lane dead ends. ] am not sure why they did not do an outlet down to the other part of Bonita because that would relieve a lot of the traffic in the area. Maybe they can open up that dead end. Another thing people are concerned about is cars passing, which was mentioned. ] talked to an Officer Bennett last week. He was out doing radar. He had said that in 20 minutes he caught five people, none were going under 46 and one was going 52 mph. Another point that someone wanted to make was that on Corral Canyon, it is 40 mph and then it all of a sudden turns to 25 on Corral Canyon. . 5 . When they are going on Corral Canyon at 40 and turn on to our street they are still going at that fast speed. Those are the major points. . Alex Lievanos, Jr., 1565 Country Vistas Lane, Chula Vista, 92002. I am against the recommendation made by your investigators. You have heard many comments regarding speed percentiles. I gather that that is average data so in the usual consideration of statistics you have high and low pieces of information and you run the average and this is what we are hearing. It does not take into consideration the numerous speeders that have been brought to your attention this evening. I think that this committee would reconsider the recommendations made for reconsideration of the traffic volume, reconsideration of the vehicle speeds and especially the consideration of the numerous school children which I see daily going to the bus stop about 500 feet east of the intersection of Canyon Drive and Country Vistas Lane. The current study provides information as to the stop signs on side streets up in the high end of Country Vistas Lane. I live at the intersection of Canyon Drive and Country Vistas Lane; there is a stop sign at the bottom of Canyon Drive. No stop signs on the opposing directions on Country Vistas Lane. If you were living in my house, which is at that intersection, the investigators ought, perhaps, to take a tape recorder out there and hear the tires screeching at all hours of the day and night. Those vehicles are not traveling less probably than 35 mph as they go around that corner. I live there so I know. My concern here is not on refocusing your attention down to the Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive, rather than those two circled areas [on the schematic] for the stop signs. The volume considerations presented in staffs report are very significant there. The volume of vehicle traffic at that intersection is significantly high. So it may not apply to the intersections on the side streets, but it certainly does apply to the thoroughfares of Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive. I urge this Commission to consider further the recommendation made by your staff. The speed at the top of Country Vistas Lane may be, within safe parameters, on the average, but certainly not for those offenders who are either way above the average speed or way under the average speed cited in the report. So it is a different situation at the intersection of Canyon Drive and Country Vistas Lane. At the very minimum I urge this Commission to install stop signs in both directions on Country Vistas Lane where it joins Canyon Drive and at the very least, for the consideration of the numerous school children which I see daily in the mornings and afternoons, at the very least, this Commission through its City ought to order at least crosswalks painted on the streets for the children in the neighborhood. . Jim Kelley, 565 Canyon Drive, Bonita, 92002. My residence is about one-half way down the hill from Otay Lakes Road. I think the street is very designed to carry vehicle traffic at 40 mph. I do not dispute that at all. What that does not take into consideration is that, as the previous speaker mentioned, is an awful lot of school children traveling to and from school who live in the area that are crossing the street throughout the day hours on the weekends, afternoons and the early morning hours on their way to and from school. The kids 6 . don't know all the time that the cars are going to pay attention to the 25 mph speed limit. A little bit of simple mathematics will tell you that if we have 1,800 cars going down the street on a daily basis, 15 percent of those are going over 37 mph, that's 250+ cars everyday doing in excess of 37 mph. Two hundred and fifty opportunities every day for somebody to be going a little bit too fast to stop in time to not hit one of those kids. I have seen an awful lot of those cars going through and I realize that a large number of those are repeats, cars that go by every single day on a regular basis. I go out and work in my front yard, I see the same cars going through. I have stopped a number of those cars myself and tried talking to the drivers. The attitude is always the same--you know, I wasn't going that fast. September of last year I was out working in the front yard, my concern for the kids in the neighborhood and my son in particular, keeps me on edge as I am out there in the front yard and I have one of the kids out there with me as I did last September. I heard tires squealing, somebody was obviously braking very hard, I stood up and spun around and managed to wrap my face around a light pole. I suffered a broken jaw. It took about two months and several thousand dollars worth of medical bills to get it put back together again. I hollered at the driver as he started to speed away, told him to slow down. He got out of his car, grabbed me by the shirt and threatened to take matters into his own hands. He asked if I had a problem with the way he was driving. I had a real serious problem with the way he was driving. I measured off the skid marks that he left behind from his initial stop, gave the numbers to a police officer that I know and he told me that according to his calculations the driver had to have been going in excess of 60 mph. The problem out there is real. There is an awful lot of foot traffic on that street, an awful lot of people with an awful lot of children, it is a residential community. The first few months that we were in the house, it was construction traffic. The houses got built out and it turned into the residents. Construction traffic is starting up again as Rialto is going into place. I don't see it getting any better. That 1,800 cars per day is only going to get higher. Instead of 250 opportunities at over 40 mph there is going to be more and I ask you please, let's do what we can to protect our kids and the people who live in the neighborhood. . Dawn Fay, 448 Sandy Creek Drive, Chula Vista, 92002. I agree with my dad. We need some stop signs where we are. When I walk with my mom I feel very nervous about crossing the street by myself. It is very hard. Thank you. DISCUSSION: Commissioner Koester inquired as to the location of the school that had been referred to. . Frank Rivera [using the schematic] pointed out the location of the Junior High and the High School, Southwestern College and the two elementary schools. 7 . Vice Chair Braden asked if there were a lot of children crossing streets. Someone from those in attendance responded that the bus only lets children off on one side so that they have to cross to the other side. Commissioner Thomas asked Agent Schaefer for his comments on this issue. . Agent Schaefer told the Commissioners that there were two specific issues that the Commission was dealing with: the first is the speed issue and the second are the stop signs. I think the Traffic Engineers explained very well why we cannot enforce radar in violation of the speed trap. We are aware of the problem that is occurring on Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive. We have assigned motor officers to enforce the speed limits out there. Its like everything else in a bureaucracy, we have only limited resources to deal with the problem and that is not the only problem we are dealing with in the City. I know that doesn't make you feel any better about what we can do for you, but we are making every effort that we can to address the issue and enforce the speed limits out there. One lady asked about the Smart unit--we have planned in the next week to put the Smart unit on that area of Canyon Drive which you are concerned with. Officer Bennett is assigned to the unit, the traffic bureau that I am in charge of. He told me personally about his feelings on the speeding problem out there and we are planning on doing as much enforcement as possible for the problem as it exists now. It is like anything else though, when we're there we usually get compliance, when we're not there people are going to do what they're going to do anyhow. So, it is not a unique problem that you're having on your street. We want to work with you and do everything that we can and try and alleviate it. I can tell you we wi1l do the best we can with the resources we have available. Hal Rosenberg interjected with an additional comment that even if we were to put the 25 mph signs on the street, I think the Sergeant would agree that that probably would not alter the speeds that are now taking place on the roadway. Respondent from the attendees stated the officer's remarks were well taken and insofar as the enforcement that seems to be what we are talking about here. They are now empowered enough, with enough manpower, vehicles and resources to enforce traffic laws around the City. They just can't, they are spread out too thin as they are clear across this country. What we are asking this Commission to do is consider options and alternatives to assist the law enforcement. That is, if you can't post the speed limit signs because we know that when people see them they disregard them anyway. What about stop signs. What about crosswalks. What about lines down the street to supplement the law enforcement. That is all we are asking. . Greg Fay returned and stated that the problem with the motor officers out there with the radar is that when a car goes by at 35 mph and they don't stop that car 8 . and cite them, they are telling the citizen that it is okay to go that speed through that area. In other words they are validating the speeding we are complaining about and I also say the solution is, put a stop sign on every intersection out there because that can be enforced. Every time somebody goes through it, you write them a ticket and they have no choice but to slow down. . Hal Rosenberg commented about the stop sign request. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a social problem, behavior of the motorists who aren't driving in accordance with what the surrounding area dictates to be safe and to place a stop sign at every intersection we think would be unrealistic. Our studies have shown that if stop signs are in place motorists will continue to speed. They get aggravated because they have to stop and they speed up between stop signs, or they will cheat and will roll through the stop signs. A child will think that the car is going to stop and step out into the street and we may have a more serious problem. The problem is pervasive throughout the City and I don't think it is really practical or possible to expect to control the behavior of individuals by installing stop signs. This is a neighborhood problem, perhaps through the media, through campaigns, through notices, through the schools, we can alert the people who use the street that in fact they are speeding and maybe we can get some compliance in that manner. But for the reasons I cited, I think it would be a risk to recommend stop signs on every street. If there is a demonstrated need for the stop signs the motoring public understands that there are conflicts at an intersection and there is meaning to the stop sign then we would get adherence to that installation. Vice Chair Braden requested that Mr. Rosenberg address the crosswalk issue, that it does give people a false sense of security. Mr. Rosenberg responded by stating that the crosswalk issue, again, it implies to the children particularly, or maybe even some of the older folks, that the painted lines means that cars can see the pedestrians and can and will stop every time a pedestrian is in a crosswalk. It creates a false sense of security and we would rather the children be aware of the inherent risks and dangers of crossing a street rather than step out thinking that the crosswalk is going to provide them with protection. Besides, where do we put the crosswalk. Children can cross almost anywhere in the neighborhood and they generally do. They don't walk out of direction to use a crosswalk. . With regard to the centerline stripe comment Mr. Rosenberg stated that staff would not have any objection to putting a centerline stripe on a roadway. However, I think that invites speeding. Motorists then know that the centerline stripe means that the roadway has some degree of protection because it is marked and encourages motorists to use the street because they know that every cross street with a centerline stripe has a stop sign. That may be case anyhow and I would not have any objection with the centerline stripe but I think that would be a mistake. 9 . Jim Kelley returned to the microphone to respond to the City [Traffic] Engineer. I recognize his [Traffic Engineer] position to be the bad guy and that I can feel for him having to be the one here telling us that our concerns [Vice Chair Braden interjected, stating that he is not the bad guy, really] I recognize that and I am trying to show that I do appreciate that. Maybe we are not going to stop everybody by putting in stop signs, we're not going to slow down all of the people, but if we can turn that 250+ cars going over 40 mph down to 200 cars a day, that's 50 less chances. Thank you. Commissioner Arnold wished to speak to this item. After listening to all these folks and what has been said, I know darn well that the Council is not going to accept what the statf has given us [the Commission]. They threw the book at us, but I think that we've also got to come up with reasonable alternative suggestions as to how we can beat this problem. If I were the Council I would send it back. Commissioner Arnold made the motion that the Safety Commission send this item back to staff for restudy and representation at the earliest possible date. Vice Chair Braden asked who the speaker was that suggested stop signs at a different location, specifically Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive. Vice Chair Braden asked staff if they had any comments on this intersection since it is not addressed in the report. . Frank Rivera responded by stating that if we were going to install stop signs at any of those intersections between Otay Lakes Road and Corral Canyon Road, the intersection of Canyon Drive and Country Vistas Lane because of the way the roadway is laid out, that would have the highest number of vehicles using that and the highest number of vehicles from the minor streets going to the major streets. Although it would not meet the requirements for an all-way stop, that would be the best location for an all-way stop because of the volumes of traffic on that street using the intersection. That would be the first choice. Vice Chair Braden suggested that Commissioner Arnold repeat his motion. Commissioner Arnold stated that he did not know if he addressed the recommendation of the staff, relative to the business of continuing to monitor vehicle speeds. It has already been indicated that there isn't the resources to be able to do that in any degree of response to the people passing through the area and violators of the speed limits. Commissioner Arnold restated his motion. . MOTION That the Safety Commission table the item and ask staff to explore this problem again in light of what has been presented here this evening and come back with a recommendation that is more palatable and workable to meet the needs of the people of the vicinity involved and bring it back at the May meeting. 10 . Mr. Rosenberg asked a question for clarification: What I have heard from the audience is that they want a stop sign at every intersection. Is that what you are asking us to look into. Commissioner Thomas stated that he thought that what the Commission is saying is: (1) We agree that the point system does not warrant the four-way stop, we acknowledge that and we also acknowledge the problems of the people in the audience. I am not agreeing with your stop signs, I am not agreeing with your yellow, I am saying that I want to agree that no four-way stops, but go back to these people and find out something that works. Obviously there is a bad problem that you are in tune to, find something that works and bring it back and let's vote on it. Vice Chair Braden suggested that staff also look into Country Vistas Lane and Canyon Drive. Come back with some other alternatives MSUC [Arnoldrrhomas] 4-0, approved. . Vice Chair Braden reiterated what the Commission was requesting. We recommend that staff study that general area, keeping in mind the area's particular problems and come back next meeting, if at all possible, with some other suggestions that might slow down the speed or pacify these people. You must remember, and I do not care who says what about schools, education begins at home and you've got to teach the children not to cross the street. As many articles in the paper and letters to the editor about how children will not, will not, walk five or six minutes out of their way to where they can cross safely; they are going to tear across the street and I am sorry--I raised children and I have grandchildren, they behave, they do not run across the street. Please call Mr. Rosenberg at his office if you have any specific suggestions as this item is closed. Commissioner Arnold asked the Traffic Engineer to also consider the possibility of the resources that would be involved if they were available to control this situation as it has developed. Study the resources that have been indicated are not sufficient to monitor this area and control the speeds of the traffic through the area. As was indicated by the police representative they are lacking a lot of resources. If we cannot get the resources then we have to beat the drum and say that we have to have these resources if we are going to continue to have a community that is operating within the law. Commissioner Braden asked staff at what time the surveys were done. . 11 . . . Mr. Rivera responded that staff did radar surveys and also did a speed count survey, which is where a traffic counter is set out for a 24-hour count. Vice Chair Braden noted that the Police Representative and the Traffic Engineer are aware, and will be studying it for another month. The second Thursday of next month the Safety Commission will meet again and perhaps will have something that will ease your [those concerned with this issue] minds. Mr. Rivera mentioned that the next Safety Commission meeting will be on May 10, at 7:00 p.m., at the Council Chambers, Public Service Building. Those that spoke and left addresses will be notified. He asked if those who did not speak wished to be notified that they should give their name and address to the Recording Secretary. Break at 8:05 to 8:13 p.m. 2. CONTINUED MATTERS (2a) Request for a two-hour parkin!! limit on 1600 block of Maple Drive Frank Rivera, Assistant Civil Engineer, stated that originally this item was on the Agenda for the Safety Commission meeting in March. The request was for the two- hour parking limit at the 1600 block of Maple Drive. At that last meeting the Safety Commission voted unanimously, 5-0, to have the condominium complex make parking spaces available for the residents and also to allow for staff to red-tip the driveways for clearance where the residents requested it in that block. Staff at that time was contacted by some of the residents and we also received a letter from the residents at 1644, 1650, 1664, 1671 and 1675 that we red-tip their driveways so that they could have additional sight distance clearance. Staff has gone out there and marked out the red curbing and as of yesterday [April 11, 1990] the red curb had not been installed, but we were waiting for tonight's meeting so that the Safety Commission could, if there were other recommendations, incorporate those changes. Staff does not have any additional comments to add other than, as we receive requests for red-tipping the driveways we will go out and mark it or investigate the request and therefore it is requested that the Safety Commission not take any further action on the two-hour parking limit or the permit parking issue which was mentioned at last month's meeting. Otto Jensen, 1674 Maple Drive, Chula Vista, 92011. I would just like to thank the Commission for looking into this problem. Also Mr. Roberts for helping trying to put this thing under us. Like it says in here, get the red curbing going and we would like to try that and see what happens and also it says down here on the bottom of the Commission Agenda that if this thing doesn't help we might have to go back and try something different. Again, I want to thank everybody for their help. 12 . George Roberts, 1640 Maple Drive, #73, Chula Vista, 92011. I am the President of the Autumn Hil1s Homeowners Association. Yet I am here by myself tonight and I guess you people are glad of it because I know you are getting tired of this. The reason I am here by myself, is again I was the only one notified that there was going to be anything concerned with this in our area tonight. And even though I marked that I was appearing against the project as it was laid out I really have no objection to the red-tipping of the areas of the driveways except the fact that I wonder how we are going to offset the fact that you are going to be losing about five parking spots when you do that. I also think that if we are going to do the marking along the driveways that we should also red-zone the curb where Spruce Road intersects Maple Drive because there is many times there are cars parked right at that location and makes it pretty much of a blind intersection. I think that if we are going to red-tip any of it that they should follow through to that extent. But, otherwise we really have no objection to the red-tipping. Thank you very much. Vice Chair Braden asked why this gentleman was the only one notified. Mr. Rivera stated that he was notified because he is the President of the Autumn Hil1s Homeowners Association. That is basically the person that we have had contact with through the last few months. Yes, he was depended upon to notify the others. . Mr. Roberts interjected that he received his notice of the meeting on Tuesday. Vice Chair Braden stated that perhaps a little more notice should be given, if possible. Anybody anytime. Commissioner Arnold stated that he had not gone up to Maple today, but he wanted to know the location of the driveways of 1673 and/or 1675. Those lines do not seem to tally with the property lines. Mr. Rivera responded that, based on information provided by staff investigator who measured the properties and the driveways that it was difficult for him to determine quite where the property line was at. He showed Commission where driveways were located by reference to the schematic. MOTION That we accept staffs recommendations with the addition of the red curbing that Mr. Roberts suggested. MSUC [ThomaslKoester] 4-0, to approve. . 13 . . . 3. NEW BUSINESS (3a) Request for street lil!ht relocation on Lakeshore Drive near Southshore Drive Frank Rivera gave staff report on the request for the street light relocation. Staff late last year received a telephone call followed up by a written request from the Camelot Homeowners Association at EastLake Shores that an investigation be made into the lighting on Lakeshore Drive. Mr. Rivera showed a schematic [Area Plat] which showed the locations of the street lights and he stated that the circles represent the 100 watt street lights and we put them as close to the curb line where the street light is located. The "0" represents the 250 watt or the brightest lights in this area. Staff initially, when we received this request which is focused at this intersection [Southshore Drive]; this intersection is a four-way intersection with Brookstone Road winding through this area. It is a private access road or driveway for the parking area for the Camelot condominium complex. At that time we conducted our investigation we felt that the street lighting could go up to a 150 watt light, we did not have one in stock so we installed a 250 watt high pressure sodium vapor street light, which is the brightest light that we have. This light as it stands now gives off the same illumination at the intersection of Southshore Drive and Lakeshore Drive that a 100 watt street light does if it were located 45 feet closer to the intersection which the residents were requesting. One point I would like to make also is that this intersection on the south side of Brookstone Road does have a street light next to it, Waterbury does not and we did, if you notice the spacing of the lights around the circle, we pretty much try to keep at an even interval and the Brookstone Road driveway [on the right side] does not have any light on the private property and so staff feels that maybe it should be up to the Camelot Homeowners Association to provide lighting on their own property seeing as how we have already done our share and installed the 250 watt street lighting. MOTION That we accept staff's report and keep the 250 watt high pressure sodium vapor light in its present location. MSUC [KoesterfThomas] 4-0, to approve. (3c) Street lil!htinl! report for various hil!h pressure sodium vapor lil!hts in Chula Vista Frank Rivera noted that this report was requested by Commissioner Militscher. Mr. Rivera had talked to him on this item at the office last week. He was requesting this report in response to the studies that we had done at the Country Club area. He felt that the lighting should be looked into so that maybe that would be a recommendation that we could tie in to the Country Club issue. Staff has completed an analysis of the illumination given off by the various types of street lights in use throughout the City. The evaluation was done for both the ornamental 14 . street lights in the Country Club area and one [evaluation] for the regular street light standards which are presently in use in subdivisions throughout the City. The bulb wattage on the ornamental street light is a 100 watt high pressure sodium vapor and the modern street light standard has 100 or 150 or a 250 watt light. The main difference in the light distribution comes at the luminaire, the top end of the light. The ornamental light standard is much like a candlestick in that the light is circular about the top and less light is directed downward. There is no reflector inside that light to direct more of the light downward towards the roadway. This light also does not have a mast arm, therefore the light is concentrated at the back of the sidewalk where the street light standard is located. A modern street lights has the luminaire mounted over the roadway with a reflector that is designed so that the lighting is distributed over the roadway. This report is basically done as informational report and staff would like to have the Safety Commission accept this report. MOTION That we accept staffs report. MSUC [Braden/Koester] 4-0, to approve. COMMISSION DISCUSSION . Commissioner Arnold said that he did not think there was enough light up in there as it is today, particularly with regards to the problems that were experienced in the Country Club Drive situation. If we are to make a recommendation as to the solution of the problems in that area I would strongly recommend that we change the lights in that area. The residents in that area apparently liked the lights when they were originally put in there and the homes were sold. But with the change in the pattern of traffic in that area--in and out of it--the lighting does not meet the needs. My feeling is that if it ever comes before the Commission again that we strongly consider changing the lighting system in that area. Mr. Rivera mentioned that when the street light standards were renovated a few years back that we did receive very strong opposition with staffs recommendation to have them removed. What we did was put in the modern street lights on Hilltop Drive and at First Avenue on the outside edges of that neighborhood. If we go back and recommend that these ornamental lights be removed once again, we will have this same opposition. I think the neighborhood and the residents prefer those type of lights but I think that what it may come down to is that we may have to have the modern lights in addition to these ornamental lights at the intersections. Commissioner Koester asked what would happen if you put in the 250 watt, just il1uminated around in a circ1e rather than down. . 15 . Mr. Rivera showed transparencies on the lighting of these intersections. He explained that staff had taken its light meter out and measured the light illumination pattern of the street lights. It was very interesting to see the way the pattern is laid out. He also had a transparency of the Country Club area, of the intersection in question--Sierra Way and Country Club Drive. He further stated that the 250 watt light would illuminate more of the intersection rather than the 100 watt low pressure light which basically lights up the sidewalk and a few feet into the street. Vice Chair Braden asked if the globe [ornamental street fixture] were large enough or strong enough to hold more powerful light. Mr. Rivera responded that if we go to a larger size light or bulb we would have to change the wiring because they are all tied together and it would be very expensive to upgrade the whole system. Commissioner Thomas asked if we were at the maximum now. . Mr. Rosenberg stated that the post mounted lights are designed for the smaller light, the 100 watt light; it's possible to retrofit them but he was not sure but that the globe would have a different feature to it, there is some expense because there is a ballast, a transformer that needs to be changed, possibly some additional larger wiring, the size of the wiring may not be capable of carrying the load for the heavy duty lights. The issue here, I guess, as Frank [Rivera] pointed out is that there seems to be opposition from the community to go to the standard street lights. Secondly, the brighter light may also be objectionable because it does then create a glaring effect and I am not sure you buy that much benefit because it is a very inefficient globe and all the light is really just dissipating upward and very little coming down and I don't think you are really getting your bang for the money invested in it. It is a problem that we have in neighborhoods where the community wants to retain a rural appearance and they don't even want sidewalks in some locations where we know that sidewalks provide an extra degree of safety. We can demonstrate that if in fact the lack of lighting, that is not the standard type of lighting, is contributing to the problem. That is where cars are losing control around a corner, we don't think that the lighting is a factor. Commissioner Koester stated that for now the Commission should leave well enough alone until something comes up. Mr. Rosenberg responded that that would be staffs recommendation. Vice Chair Braden inquired of the Commissioners if their previous vote stood. It was agreed that the motion was approved 4-0. . 16 . (3d) Request for investie:atine: traffic concerns on Third Avenue between "G" Street and Roosevelt Street Vice Chair Braden and Commissioner Koester inquired as to what was the meaning of a painted curb gray. . Frank Rivera informed the Commission that in front of the Pac Ben building that there are nine (9) metered parking spaces and that at the extreme north end of the Pac Bell Bui]ding there is a bus stop and there is some confusion. The problem arises in that people feel that some of the people are parking in a red curb when in fact it was a red curb before and the gray was painted over the red curb to blank out the red paint instead of sandblasting as the City does not have a sandblaster. It was painted gray to look like cement; however, car tires rub the gray paint off and the red shows. The gray paint does not mean anything. There is a tendency for people to park as close as possible to the front door of the Pac Ben Building to pay their bill. The building does have a 53-stan parking lot available in the back. They have a sign that says parking lot, or parking access off Roosevelt Street which is around the corner. But, most people seem to be in too much of a hurry to park around back. The speed surveys on that area show--the speed limit is 35 mphn that the 85 percentile which was done over a 24-hour period was 32 mph. A radar speed survey which was done during the busy times show it at 36 mph, or 1 mile over during the daytime and 3 mph lower in the 24-hour time period. Staff feels that monitoring by the Police Department, which they have been made aware, and the repainting of the two stalls where the red paint is showing again that that will help alleviate some of the problem. I have been speaking with some individuals in the Planning Department and there is a study underway to renovate the building across the streetnthe old Windmill Farms Building. It may become an office building or something of that nature, but right now they are just accepting ideas on that project from developers and nothing as yet as been made definite. We felt that there may be another attraction on the opposite side of the street and we fee] that when that property is developed it will tend to be office buildings and that may not be of the type that would have more people crossing the street mid-block. I went out there on many occasions and although I did notice there were some pedestrians crossing mid-block, the signals provide a gap that the pedestrian can cross the street adequately. The vehicle volumes are there during certain peak periods such as noon or late in the afternoon or on Friday afternoons, but in general there is not a problem. Commissioner Thomas asked if staff had checked if there were any conditional use permits or how these people are able to put such a high traffic area right on Third Avenue. . Mr. Rivera responded that that business was approved primarily on the basis that they provide adequate off-street parking, which they have done. I think the problem is that the main entrance is on Third Avenue and their parking spaces 17 . are in the back. People do not want to park in the back and walk around the block to use the front door. MOTION That we accept staffs recommendation and repaint the two northerly curb line stalls in front of the Pacific Bell Building. Commissioner Thomas said that this basically does not address the problem. Mr. Rivera responded that he did not really notice that there was some sort of problem, the problem may be sporadic in nature, but we do not see a general problem where we have pedestrians crossing through mid-block in the area. Pedestrians that are crossing do take due caution. We have not had a report of a pedestrian accident on the street. We did have one pedestrian accident at the driveway to the 7-11. There was a car on Third Avenue turning into the 7-11 and there was a pedestrian crossing the sidewalk [driveway], but we have no reported accidents for pedestrians on that area and we do feel that the pedestrians are taking precaution when they cross Third Avenue. Commissioner Thomas stated that there have been 10 accidents in the last three years. He asked staff what they thought were the causes of these accidents. . Mr. Rivera stated that the accidents which have occurred at this area, surprisingly enough tended to be people wanting to turn on to Roosevelt Street or turn on to the minor streets, being rear-ended since we do not have a two-way turn lane down the center of the lane. The minor streets which are in that area, when we have a left turning movement, from the number one lane or the fast lane, that we have the vehicles that are not paying attention rear ending them. Commissioner Thomas wanted to know if staff were sure this was the cause and not that cars were stopped because pedestrians are crossing the street. Mr. Rivera responded that most of the accident, while he could not say all of them, but that probably well over half of the 10, the vehicle was attempting to make the turn and was waiting for on-coming traffic to clear. Commissioner Thomas asked Mr. Rivera what were the hours he was at this location making his observation. Mr. Rivera advised Commission that a Student Intern was there at noontime, and that he was there at approximately 3:30 to 5:00 p.m. on both Wednesday and Friday. . 18 . . . MOTION That we accept staffs recommendation and repaint the two northerly curb line stalls in front of the Pacific Bell Building. MSUC [Koester/Braden] 4-0, to approve. 4. TRIAL TRAFFIC REGULATIONS Vice Chair Braden noted no Trial Traffic Regulations was scheduled on the Agenda. 5. STAFF REPORTS Mr. Rivera informed the Commission that the pedestrian-actuated traffic signal at Hilltop Drive was turned on Wednesday afternoon, April 11, at 1:30 and it is working. It was tested, the pedestrian push buttons were checked and it does provide adequate crossing time at that intersection. The signal is visible from Quintard Street to Orange Avenue, so there is great visibility. Commissioner Arnold commented that he was at the site this afternoon and two children pushed the button so he had to stop. The lights are up so far that when I stopped at the stop line I could not see the light. He inquired as to how long the red light remains on. Mr. Rivera responded that the red light remains on for 27 seconds. Mr. Rosenberg stated that, while he was not sure how long the light remained red, it was sufficient to allow a pedestrian to walk across the street at a pace of 4 feet per second. Mr. Rosenberg also stated that staff would look at the stop line and see if there needs to be some modification, i.e. repainting it further back from the signal. ill Citv Traffic EDI.!ineer's Report Mr. Rosenberg noted that Commissioner Militscher sometime back asked staff to included no right turn on red at Third Avenue and "F" Street; staff had agreed to look into this item. It was noted that there were considerably more violations by pedestrians (19 observed: walking against the Do Not Walk and entering the intersection after sign starts flashing Do Not Walk) and none by motorists at this intersection. As most of these violations were by older individuals, the Police Department felt the best way to address this issue was through education. The Police Department arranged through its Crime Prevention Bureau to talk to residents at the Towers, the Normal Park Center. The presentation was held on April 4, 1990. 19 . . . @ Status Report on Bonita Road Shell Gas Station Commissioner Thomas gave a brief update on this issue. He stated that he was in contact on three different occasions with Mr. Brooks Herring who is the Area Manager for Shel!. There was an Engineer report that Shell received from Taft Engineering on this car wash project. I requested a copy of this report but the request was turned down. He read me excerpts from the report. Basically, the report stated there is a problem and Shell should address the problem. I believe they will be making a recommendation to the City of Chula Vista to pave one- half of the eastern side of the street a length of 182 feet [concrete]. I indicated that I felt, personally, this would be rejected, that they might want to reconsider. His supervisor is going to look at the situation this coming week and they will get back to me with their recommendation. He indicated that they are looking at ways to get the water off the cars before they leave the driveway. Basically, at the end of our conversation we nixed the idea of a two-step process, that it needs to be corrected now--that the City cannot live with one-half of the street being asphalt and the other one-half being concrete. Mr. Rosenberg inquired if the Commission would be in a position if it does not get any resolve on the issue that the Commission would consider recommending to the City Council that the driveway be closed. Members Braden and Thomas responded, saying absolutely. Mr. Rosenberg restated that the issue here is really safety and not necessarily the cost of keeping the road repaired, although that is a consideration. 6. COMMUNICATIONS None. 7. WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE Vice Chair Braden inquired if the City Council had or had not formally accepted the letter of resignation. Staff noted that the letter was acknowledged at the City Council meeting, however staff had not received anything in writing to make us aware that they did accept the letter of resignation. OTHER COMMENTS Commissioner Koester brought up that at the corner of Third Avenue and Orange Avenue there are overhead street lights, one at each corner and they are not on at night time. 20 . -- -....., . '- Mr. Rosenberg stated that staff will check into this problem and will report back at the next meeting. Vice Chair Braden noted that she had brought this issue before the Safety Commission previously concerning the very, very lengthy street parking of RVs. There are two that absolutely refuse to leave; they snake an extension cord to the house, the wheels are up on blocks--somebody lives there. This is a sight problem and a safety hazard. It is a safety hazard because somebody has to back of their driveway and they cannot see. It is a legal parking space but it is not a legal storage or living space. Commissioner Arnold brought up that at the corner of Beech Avenue and "L" Street there is a vehicle with Tennessee plates that has been sitting there for about a month or so. 8. RECESS TO REGULAR MONTHLY WORKSHOP SESSION None held. 9. Adjournment to regular Safety Commission Meeting of Thursday, May 10, 1990. MOTION That we adjourn this meeting. MSUC [KoesterfThomas] 4-0, to approve. The meeting was adjourned at 9:06 p.m. '-jj~ 4. ~ Berlin D. Bosworth, Recording Secretary [APRIL-90.MIN] 21