HomeMy WebLinkAbout1953-11-16 PC MINS IM4TUTES OF A REGULAR ADJOINED MEETING
OF THE PLA11N11kTG CWTISSION OF THE CITY OF
CHULA VISTA,: CALIFOIITIA
Held hhionday'. November 16; 1953
The Chula Vista Planning Commission met in the Council Chamber at Civic Center
on the above date at 7:30 P.M. with the following Members present: Stewart: Drew'
Poulter, Mohr, Farris. Absent: Mlember Smith. Also Present: City Planner Wagner9
City Attorney Boyer: Asst. to City Engineer: Johnson.
APPROVAL OF MNUIT2
It was moved by Member Dreg, seconded by Member Poulter and unanimously carried,
that the minutes of the meeting-of November 25 1953 be approved with the following
addition: Member Drew voted IrTNTooi on the location of a new Post Office for the reason
that no land can be spared from the Civic Center area and it is not a public building
appurtenant to existing Civic Center buildings, and it is a poor location for a
Post Office. Copies of the minutes had been mailed to each Member:
PUBLIC THEARNG Master Street Plan.
City Planner Wagner explained to the approximately 250 persons present that of-
ficially this hearing was not the first public hearing on the proposed Master Street
Plan, because City Attorney Boyer had ruled that no hearings could be held until such
time as the City Council had officially adopted an Ordinance adopting the State Plan-
ning Act. He reported that at their last meeting,"the Council put such an Ordinance
on its first reading and that it would be put on its second reading at them meeting
of November 17, 1953. When officially adopted' there must be a period of thirty-
one days before the Ordinance becomes effective, so that nothing can be done on the
Master Street Plan until some time_, in,January, and then two public hearings will be
held by the Planning Cgmmission and one by the City Council,
Mr. Wagner presented a map of the proposed Master Street Plan and read a re-
vised report on First Avenue Extension.
The Secretary read a petition signed by approximately 700 residents and property
owners of the First Avenue area protesting the proposed First Avenue EvYtension. Chair-
man Stewart then asked for additional comments from the audience, as follows:
Lowell Davies., 385 First Ave.
I live at 385 First Ave. in this City bet7meer_ 'IF" and IIGI' Sts. on the easterly
side thereof,, I am here in behalf of the First Ave. Area Assoc., which area and which
Assoc. now has some 2;000 adherents: voters and residents and taxpayers in this com-
munity. What I have to say is to a body that has one primary-responsibility, and that
is only to the residents of Chula. Vista. I want to say and augment what has heretofore
been said and set forth in our objections a felr additions"-thereto: we have attended
several meetings and we have not heard anyone appear before this Commission, residents
of the City of Chula Vista, who are in favor of making First A-enue a through way. May
I ask a raise of hands here of all those who object to First Ave, as a -through way#
May I ask a raise of hands of all those who favor First Ave. as a through way.
Now., my request was not made in derogation to those who may object, but so that
this honorable body may be aware' of the fact that .the most heavily built up residential
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,.rea, in the City of Chula Vista is almost as near as possible t6 be, unanir!ovsl,r ob-
jetting to that part of the T.Zaster Street Plan as is outline by Mr. "Wagner., which
proposes to make First Ave. a through way. Now, by whateyer variations have been
proposed since we first started coming here in June, it--is still a fourth road to
Tijuana. Novi mention has been made that as long ago as 1927 it z?as proposed that
this would be a through way. May I remind you, gentlemen, I have been here 22 years,
and. in 1927 there were fearer people in the whole area of Chula Vista than there are
now living in the First Ave. area. That, as a basis, is the most uncertain that
could be selected. Since 1950 many hundreds of houses have been built-in this area
and within the next two years the area will be positively solidly built up with single
residence dwellings., with the exceptions that have been added in the objection. And
it is our feeling that the most important thing is the peace and quiet and safety of
our homes and our families and to make a through iiay is going to seriously impair
those rights which we expected when :^re established our homes there. One point in
particular is of importance. No matter how much Chula Vista is built up within the
foreseeable future, because of its area., limited area of what, four square miles,
even if it doubles in population, if that were possible, the ability of anybody
within the City of Chula Nista to find an exit therefrom is not going to be im-
paired. At this time anybody can get in and out of. Chula Vista within six or seven
mLautes at the most. So, sofar as the residents of Chula Vista are concerned, and
that's our whole concern, that's the concern of this body, that's the concern of
this City Council, not what is desired by National City, or by the State Highvray
Commission, or any other pllnnin,; body; it's what is good for Chula Vista is your
primary responsibility. There are several things that I want to dissipate. The
great advantage to access to San Diego State College. It has been stated that this
route with its comparative changes on First Ave. are necessary for the service of
students. On the present proportion_ of students attending State College, there are
250 at the most, attending from the whole of Chula Vista. If our population increased
to 5050005 we would have 500. And so, during a portion of the year, fire days a week.,
there would be a couple hundred cars going to San Diego State College. It is our
opinion, that a proposal to do such damage to First Ave. is not justified on that
ground at all. The other straw man that has been set up is that this has been called
a "freeway". I have heard no responsible person in the First Ave. area, or anywhere
else., describe the objection as be:Dag based iipon a freeway. 7Te ltnow what a freeway
is, we know ,ghat Montgomery St. is, or Montgomery ?31vd_. is as a freeway. That its
our objection that's based on a through street because it is necessary and it will
be destructive and that is what is mostly of vital interest to us. I want to read
this from a report, "First Ave. has been selected as a *route through Chula Vista after
many conferences with other planning officials, commerce,Sta.te officials, etc." The
whole purpose of this plan_ as devised, was to make a through street, that is, from
north to south. say that any such improvement is not necessary and is most damaging_,
not only to the First Ave. area, but to all of the City, because it violates the funda-
mental principle of present highway construction to have through ways around and not'
through -residential areas or metropolitan cities, if it is possible to do it. And
so far as this program is concerned with the respect to making 395 to the east and an
extension of Sweetfvater Road down Sweetwater Valley, v heartily are in accord with
that. We object most strenuously,' in addition to what-we have filed here in June,
to the proposal to making First Ave. and. '1L" St. any more than a road out to a major
freeway. VVe object to the removal of the buildings and the destruction of private
residences in that area, for the same reasons. VJe object,, if 1111 St., which it ap-
pears to be, is to enable First Ave. to be a through route from north to south, we
object to the extension of that and the opening up of that. TVe object to this state-
ment- "the traffic will increase in volume, but due to residential character of the
neighborhood the speed will have to remail at 25 or 35 miles per hour. Grade separa-
tions and signal lights may be necessary some time in the future in order to insure
safety of travel." Any one of us who lives on First Ave. novr, thinks that those sig-
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nal lights are necessary right nozrr for safety. Use of First .Ave. by massive trucks, .
by traffic going from 25 to 50 miles an hour, is a common condition, and it is very
difficult to cross the street even in the daytime. And this condition must be cor-
rected. ,'Te feel that if First Ave. is made a through street by this body recommending
it to be so, that then the 'Lair and proper and timely tai<ng to do is to classify it
into a business street because that is what 'it -,rill become; and those people '%, ho have
contemplated building there in the near future will at least have warning of i°,chat is
impending, because it is impossible to have a through street, we have two experiences
with it, National Ave. and. Third Ave. and they have bUcome business streets. To make
a through street from the north to south on First _Ave. you would. have a business street
and you might just as well classify it for business, motels and service stations. The
two �--o together„. And so, in brief, Ln addition to adding to the objections that the
hay-e made there, we object further on the further study of this proposed plan, to that
part of it which proposes to make any modification of First and 'rF'► and any modifica-
tion which proposes to further make First Ave. a through street by opening "L” to
First Ave. I request that you gentlemen consider this viewpoint from the desires of
the people in the area and for the interest:. of Chula -lista only, and disregard that
endeavors, I don't say made in bad faith, but endeavors that are antagonistic to our
best interests. In enlisting the support of other high order bodies outside this area
whose last concern is with the peace and quiet of our homes and are more concerned
1-with the rapid movement of traffic. Thank you..
11r. Smith, 101 1,linot Ave.
As Ur. 7-Tagner pointed out there, you've abandoned ridening First Ave. and chang-
ing First Ave. south of "E'►, but you s till propose to cut First Ave. on north of "�,►'.
?'that I want to know is, =rho's goinr: to oay for all that? That 111 leave about 50
people doi,,n there holding the sack, and maybe less.
Chairman Stewart: According to 1+1r. 17agner's statement, the proposed extension would
qualify for State Gas Tax Funds, it would qualify as a major street.
1.1r. Smith: In other words, we wouldn't be assessed .for the street.
Chai_r►:Pn Steviart: No.
Mr. Smith-- Thank you.
Ed-„card Di.kli.on, 66 1111,'► St.
I live at 66 17Ecr Ut. just east of Firs Avg„ o?l the south side or "E” St. I have
the privilege again of following Mir. Davies and his eloquent presentation of this thing
as I did at one of your previous meetings. I'd like probably to read most of mine,
he was able to give his little story here in a different manner than T'm capable of
doing. As he said, all parties -rill have to admit to the -oracticability of by-passing
cities and what--have-you -with the freeways. its possible, its the standard
7Dractice to do that. I had the happy experience today of driving over the new Ocean-
side-Carlsbad bypass, and believe me, its something, to behold and it doesnit subject
one to the traffic of going through the City of Oceanside or the City of Carlsbad, such
as been accustomed. to lo, these many years There's a little proposal in the
7rir_Zd. I've ,seen it printed in the newspapers and it bears out the same contention,
bypassing the City of El Cajon. Those of you who have occasion to travel eastr,ard on
Hi gheaayy 80 know what that bottleneck has been, too, for quite some time. Fortunately
when the State Highway Commission laid out the Montgomery Free-ray they didn't bring
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•,rn Third Ave., as some of their other streeL.s is, they kept it down on the water-
front. So much for the freeway situation. .And one further thing i might add, however,
that the redesignation and changing of these proposed routes is not entirely impossible.,
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In Los Angeles, for instance' just as recently as yesterday morning, around Burbank
-aid Glendale, the City, i mean the State HightTray Commission by reason of protest from
the City School Boards and residents within the area, shifted a highi,,Tay alimment to
eli_mizate going imediately adjacent to an elementary school in that neighborhocd, so
it wouldn't be very far off the beam to consider such a thing as to expect our schools
here on Rosebank and the others. Getting doom a little more specifically to cases,
this so-called. Route "C" that tare heard about, this Bonita Rd. deal; here's our opinion,
and I'm speaking as a representative of the First Ave. Area Assoc., that the Bonita
Rd. connection should be made and can be made by a rmans other .than is set forth on
that plan. The possible route tarould be to circle the so-calleO Eucalyptus Hill over
there and come in by that belt-line freeway if you want to go that gray, or another
possible route would be to shift back and go dovrn. what is now the northerly city limits
of "C" St;, Ts,-rake a joint proposition out of it with the County, if such a thing is
feasible, you have an 80 ft. street there not-r, I think, and use that as your alignr^nnt
to the frees°ray rather than going through "E" St, as a major means of thoroughfare., w'nich
has been stated that it will ultimately prevent a ( ? ). Its been stated at previous
Planning Commission meetings that you are planning for the future. "Te re not planning
for the present, we're planning for the future". ?'Tell, I don't know whether that is
exactly true or not, it seems to me as though the planning now is to try to correct
some mistake that eras supposedly made by the previous Planning Coimmisssions_, not in
aspect to the fut-re, but right now we got to have the road through here. 11ie don't
agree that that's the proper place to start. We believe that if you were to consider
your Manning in areas that are now undeveloped and let the people that elect to
settle in that area, let them build around your plans -that have already been laid out,
not go right through the middle of tolnz, so to speak_, with a major boulevard such as
this First .Ave., Bonita Rd. and others that you propose tonight. You have a little
hedge on the thing, I believe, by doing your planning toward that end in advance_,
and not ?gaiting until they've built up out there and -then have to go in and tear them
up and do the same thing that's proposed here. This Bonita Rd., First Ave. and "E"
St. connection that has been spoken of quite freely here, in my opinion, is merely
to eliminate two right-angle ,turns. I car-It see that those bro corners up there_,
I've lived there for very nearly a year now, I can't see that there's anything too
adverse to those two right-wangle turns that would justify the expense that is planned
to go into to eliminate Mr. Wagner pointed out again here that this Bonita Rd,
connection into First Ave. and "E" St,., would go through -there on 500 ft. radius
curves and eliminate some of the hazards of that intersection. I car-it go along v;ith
that, I don't believe its necessary. Now, I told you and I told this body once before
that, according to a County's traffic count, there was I.,000 -_nits a day trent through
that intersection. I don't believe that you have to have a major boulevard to handle
4,000 cars a day, and I believe that will be substantiated by any road-making body or
a. planning body that has experienced that. As an example, I also pointed out, and I'm
putting it on this record here, that on 30th St. in the City of San Diego bet-,reen
National .Ave. and. University Ave., there are five such offset intersections, and it
might be.enlightening to know that there are as many as ten thousand cars a day use
30th St. by actual city traffic engineer's count. Now I can't see `Thy 4,000 cars a
day over that particular point is so adverse to the City's best interest. There's a
question I would have liked to ask the City Engineer had he been here tonight' Maybe
someone else can answer it' some of the people in the audience, I know, are concerned
because we've asked questions along; the same lire already. These roads and improve-
ments that ,you're talking about making, how will they be affected by this 1911 Act
job that's now in the process of coning before the City Council? Just about the time
,eve, as property oiamers in this area, the northeast side of toivn, get a street built
under this new 1,011 Act program that is in the making_, and you all know of it, we're
getting an assessment slapped on us and then somebody will come along and say, "here_,
we're going to tear this up and build something else". I think, personally, that
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either one or the other is illmassig7led0 I don't kiaow vrhich. But maybe the City Engineer
could tell me if he's elLninated these streets from the 1911 Act improvement districts
but five wouldn't be included in that even on an area basis, let alone on a direct
frontage 'basis. I think it should open a point, we don't want to get slapped with a
400, $500, 0$600 assessment for building a street in front of your house and then have
somebody come along anc tear it up and say, 1"�,Jlell, here's a new major street going
down here, we're going to build it out of Gas Tax Funds, it won't cost you anything".
1ATe think that is very real funny. ITotnr, as for this,, going back to this intersection
a.gaii�, and these 500 ft. radius curves; I say I don't believe that's necessary, I
don't believe its necessary from a construction standpoint to have that wide a radius
cu--sre on there, and in the second place, I don't believe its necessary for the use of
gasoline tax funds. The City of Coronado is, at the present time, resurfacing, main—
taining and caring for streets with gasoline tax funds that 11�-_ow are on a less than
500 ft. radius curves, and I believe that any wort: that ,rou propose to do on First
Ave., Bonita or "Et' St. in that resr--ct can be done without any restriction or ob•--
jection _from the State Highway Department. Sure, they'd like to have big, gide,
st�reeping curves and all that sort of thing, but they do not, I don't believe, demand
such a thing for their maintenance work. And you can maintain those streets for a
lot less money than you'.re talking about srcnding on condemning property and realigning
and straightening curves, call it what you will, than is proposed under this program.
Thank you very much,
Johan Reedwager, 110 Dfa_nkato St.
I live at 110 TMankato St., which is about 100 ft. west of First Ave. There was a
mentioning tonight of using State Gas Tax Funds. Back in last June when our Association
presented its petition to the City Council, as one of its delegates you remained behind
and elected, you say, to see the action of the City Council. It rras at that time a
venture was being considered, representatives of the National Ave. Business Assoc.,
the Third Ave. Business Assoc. and a few people from "F" St. were there, a few business—
men. None of the ta�Tayers were there except those incidental to their business firms.
At that time they secured a commitment, which I think if you will review the minutes
of the City C=ncil, a commitment from the City Council that at least for the next ti,ro
years State Gas Tax Funds would be delegated almost entirely and completely to the
widening and development of "E1 St. and parts of National and Third Aves. I look for
you to find that in your City Council_ minutes, at the same time the venture was read;
so I'm very curious as hour you can speak now of using funds which have already been
committed.
Robert Birch
I would like to talk about another phase of the proposed plan. Iffy name is Robert
Birch, I'm an attorney, I'm here representing property owners to the north of "L" Sto
they own property be-baeen Third Ave. and Second, and part clay between Second and First.
I'm not here representing a group of people, I wish to object, on their behalf, to
the portion of the proposed plan which would be to open an 80 ft. strip for 1!L" St.
Lly primary objection to the plan is that it vro-Ll.d destroy their homes. I thought
that- 1 should sneak up at this time, because I do feel that the opening, or not, of
1111 Std does tie in with the continuation of First St. which we've been talking about.
It seemed to me of public importance because Chula. Vista has on "Lt1 St. , an elementary
school, the Lillian Rice School and the new high school. I understand that there's a
fair amount of subdividing going on to the east of the Cit limits, appron-imately
opposite "L1' St. if 1'L" St. was opened, it would tend to take tra._�'fic from First and
11L" and from the east. And that traffic would flour by the elerentary and high school
areas and would create an additional ha and for the children attending those schools#
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Based on those reasons, I would like 'to lodge a formal protest to this Planning Com-
mission ,to that portion of the Plan which would open 'IL" St. between Third: Avenue and
First St. Thank you very much.
Pete DeGraf, Del Mar Ave.
My name is Pete DeGraf and I live at Del Har, Mr, Chairman and Commission. I live
on Del Isar which is not a through street and we surely like it. Now, apparently the
question before the house is the flow of traffic through our town and through other
towns. I should say, gentlemen, that it is not a particular problem. First Ave.
very nicely takes care of the people that live there. •I am interested, however, in
this project for this reason. I frequently travel from Chula Vista to East San Diego.
That is no problem. You run down Second to 30th5 but then that's when our trouble
starts. You go up 30th a little ways, you go "LI' St., you come back on 18th, you go
by Palm, you corse up Division, you go to Juniper. That's where the problem is, it's
not within our City, it's in our neighboring cities. Now, I canngt see why we should
spend a large amount of money to facilitate to go to and from East San Diego to
Tijuana. If it were in the interests of our own citizens I would say let's improve.
it, 'let's do it. But our problem is not within our City limits. Our problem is out-
side our City limits, and therefore their ( ? ). Since I do have property on
First, both iri the County and in the City limits, I wish to add my voice of protest
to that which already has been .submitted to you. Thank you.
G. R. Eaton, 612 First.Ave.
I live at 612 First Ave. This honorable body has presented this group of citizens
of Chula Vista with Master Street Plans that have been approved by Sacramento, National
City, San Diego and apparently by even one gentleman here in the audience. If this
body is representing the citizens of Chula Vista, when are they going to -submit a
Master Street Plan in accordance with our desires and the people that put them in
office?
Spencer Menzell, 265 First..Ave.
I live at 265 First- Ave. One aspect of this plan that has not been brought out
and I think should be brought out, is the personal one. Maps like that work out very
nicely on paper. You can plot a population center here, and one here, and draw a line
between the two and it looks fine. Those lines look nice on that nap, but you put in
your mind's eye houses on that street and people in. those houses and children in those
homes you have already established; you have been worried about them, you have been
concerned as they played on the streets. I have a child who lives on that street and
I am very concerned. That is my protest. 7hether it is called freeway, through way,
boulevard or whatever it is, my child lives there, and as I read day by day of traffic
accidents, I picture, «is that my child?tt Is that your)s? How can you take the resi-
dential area of Chula Vista, run a through street len �P?vi e of it and say that is in
the best interests of .Chula Vista. Put yourself there with your family, your life
investment, and if you can answer that affirmatively, you are different men than I
think. I protest heartily. My family, my livelihood, my life is tied up on that
street. I want it to remain safe so we can live and grow up decently.
L. T. Griffis, 311 First Ave.
I live on First Ave., at 311. I have, been running through a number of questions,
some of which I personally would like to know-_ and if it. is possible to be answered.,
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who is it that is giving support -to the Commission and the planning of this present
plan.. I feel that it is not the residents of that area. Is it a commercial body,
a civic activity of a group and organization. Can you answer that? in conversation
tirrith various representatives itis definitely against it. I"�e area of Rosebank, -the
area of the Junior ?sigh School, have spoken very strongly as to 'the subject ,rrithLn
their needs. There is an opposition to the through streets, the fast streets, which
are a haoard to the children going to and from those schools. I would also like to
ask a question, I'i'Tho, perhaps, is in view or in line m) there for monetary Gain of the
present plans?" . It is felt -that the majority of the people from First Ave! area
would lose property value. There would be a very few, according to the maps, as to
the o--rners of the area that t:rould be in line for profit. I dont t believe the whole
situation is in' the interest to the people of the First .-ve. area, Thank you.
F. L, Kilnrey, 55 Bonita Rd.
I want to submit to this body tonight that if we can't 1. 11 this thing by strength
of nul;lbers, „rl-,ich I think we should be able to; looks like we 111 have to carry it by
filib Iter, so I'm going., to help it along a little bit. :any-.vay, there are a fern things
-that haven't been brougfnt out on the Bonita fid. e-71ftensi on that I object to and that I
think should be brought out a little more clearly. One of them is that_, in. the Star
payor a short time ago when a ti.=rriteup appeared about the Bonita Rd. e_Ltensior_, Bonita
e>tension cutoff' -that they irrere going to take out any number of houses and extend
the road, they compared -the cost to assessed valuations of a house cost, t�rhx.ch is
about one-fourth of actual valuations, and they compared that cost to the actual cost
of building a road straight through. Now, I don't grant a road straight throu;;h, don't
m-sunderstand me, i don't want either one, but it certainly was a misleading statement
to the public, a misleading fact to even begin to compare the assessed valuations of
property to the cost of building a road, they just aren't the same thing. And I ob--
ject to it, I think it should be straightened out, I think that you gentlemen,
if you add on your figures according to the Star paper, if you have the same f igu-res 5
you should correct that in your minds, but the minute you shoirr the bill to cut off,
you might as well multiply by five as far as -the cost of houses is concerned, because
,you're going to have to pay for -those houses, if not the actual cost that you want to
pay, you're going to have to pa-, it to a jury, because they're going to, most of them_,
take them to jury trials for their cost. But I think that's incidental now. I can't
see hour, with all the people here that are represented, they -represent all of Chula
Vista, -they don't just represent First Ave. and Bonita Rd., you've heard from people
down on 'iL'r St., your Tre heard from people all over Chula, Vista, and i'll 4irager to say
that there are probably over 2 or 3 thousand people -that are opposed to this rt.Taster
Plan that you'-,re presented, -that I11r. 7Jagner has presented to them, that's been brought
up,. I cant.L understand i-.,rly you don't just kill it. You hold our property in jeopardy.
On First Ave. bet-aeen "E" and "F'•' Sts. there's three houses for sale right noir. There
mint be a reason 'for a1-1 those houses being for sale., People aren't going to grant to
live there if they'-re going to cut through streets through, put heavy truck traffic
through there and make them undesirable homes. And that isn't the whole mess, at the
beginning there they had half the street up for sal_e� You go look for yourselves, if
you grant that verified, Just go look and you'll see. So, anysM1ray, here all these
people have come here tonight to protest, not only the First Ave. and the Bonita cut-
off_, but most of the Duster Ilan. Now, then, we're paying good money for an engineer.
I've brought this out before, in fact, I challenge the Planning P'rireer that he's
paid a good salary and he's paid to plan this City, the way we want it, not the :gray
the Chamber of Coin-erce wants it, or the btLsinessman .,ants it, but the way we rrarat it,
He is a planning engineer,, can't he plan our community, so that the streets and the
major hLEhways can go arohLnd us o give us the community the way the want it. I think
that's a good challenge for him to go ahead and work on. And forget the other one..
And lets kill it right tonight so that we don't have to worny about it, we don't have
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our proper'-NT values depreciated, we don't have to even think about selling our homes
unless we want to. '
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G. C. Jerkins, 101 "F" St.
My name is C. C. Jenkins. I live at 101 "F". I came to California eight years
ago from the Midwest, I'm glad I did until you gentlemen begin to gum things up. I
live with my daughter and her husband, we live together. ?'Te chose Chula Vista after
looking over Southern California very carefully. One of the reasons vire chose it., and
the primary reason, is its the City beautiful as we heard it called by the gentleman
here with the newspaper. We even appreciated the pictures you took of Firs-L- Ave.
You took all the trees, the parkway, several of.-the most beautiful homes. Now, then,
these are the gentlemen wants to tear the devil out of it. I'm not the leader of
this, I'm just one of the people who feel our toes have been stepped on. Te don't
think we're getting a square. shake. There's a lot of these people live in San Diego
and work in San Diego, they're not trying to live next door to where they work. And
of course, I don't have any children, but by golly, I've always had respect for child-
ren and look out for them. And whether I live in podunk or Kokomo, I think this is
a raw deal to do what you propose on First Ave. I could go ahead and talk a long time,
but these people have only been contacted twice, it's automatic with them, they think
its avrful, gentlemen. I haven't meant to be personal, or silly, but its awful' You're
our representatives, not the Chamber of Commerce, we're sick o£ that. And who wants
a lot of freeways. Get with it, you're our representatives.
Albs. Austin Brown, 276 Shasta St.
I live at 276 Shasta St. .I have two children. My oldest one is 9, hers in the
fourth grade, he walks to school. He walks a mile and a quarter. In order for his
protection I would insist that there be signals foot of every street, every main street,
patrol boys stationed, and I don'tthink the schools are going to do it a mile and a
quarter from school. Or else, the City provide bus service for all of those children.
And I don't think they're going to do it. I think its wrong. We moved to Chula Vista
three years ago, 'the same as this gentleman said. We chose Chula Vista because it was
not a city that was too heavily traveled by traffic. '+;re wanted a place to live so
our children would be safe. We don't feel that they will be safe if this plan goes
through.
Mrs. Butterfield, 799 First Ave.
I'm Pars. Butterfield and I live at 799 First Ave. As far as the street being
kept down to 25 miles an hour, that's a laugh as far as I'm concerned. There's cars
that go by my house that I know that they hit at least 50 or more. I know that if,you
make it a through street you better take out the boublevard stop on "K" and First Ave.,
because they won't stop anyway, they've gone through it at least two or three times a
day now. I have three children, one is ill and one is 72; they walk to school, and a
little girl that is 5. And every day that she walls to school, I hold my breath that
she's going to get back safely because there are no school busses. And. I'm wondering
why, too, 'that we weren't consulted about this plan before it went to Sacramento and
211 outlying cities, instead of Chula Vista, who is concerned about it; and not National
City, Sacramento or any place else. And I'm wonderingi too, how many of the ones that
proposed it live on First Ave.
Chairman Stewart: I would like to clear up a misunderstanding that you people have..
The plans have not been approved by anyone, as yet. They cannot have final approval.
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until the three public hearings have been held, two by the Commission and one by the
_City Council.
Joe Oswald, 576 .First Ave.
I live at 576 First Ave., and maybe my motive is purely selfish, because I had
planned on moving out of Chula Vista before this First Avenue became such an issue.
However, while Iia*as living here I didn't feel_ that the proper thing for me to do
was go along with the people that Jive in Chula Vista. And the reason I'm mooring out
is not on account of First Ave. or the City, but I've got a young Junior that's going
to State College, and that nifty little rascal drove 13,000 miles the first year and
20,000 the second year. So I said, "that's not for me". And I dontt feel that this
extra mileage that he drove was caused by not having a shorter route. So while his
automobile is laid up bets using mine and puts another 2,000 on it. So I117e had my
place up for sale now; for, I think its going on the third month. I had it listed
exclusive, and by the way, its 51,000 below the price that I paid for it; and the
agent that it was listed with brought one party in 60 days to look at it, there was
only one party interested enough to walk inside. But its on the open market now
and I still haven't had anybody in there to look at it. So its going back on ex-
clusive again next month. If anybody would just come around and say, "Well, I'll
give you $7.00, but nobody's even given me a nickel. So if 'these people that's been
talking about property values, believe me, gentlemen, I'm going to pay through the
nose and I know it by experience.
IV. R. Collins, 83 Taint Ave.
I'm IV. R. Collins, I live at 83 Minot. I'm against a through way going down
` First Ave., but I'm not getting for taking the trash that there moves from, which is
north and south, from towards Tijuana from First Ave. and noving it down in the
canyon back of my place, a regular eyesore. There's a couple of ladies that were
here at the protest at the time. But I am in for taking that dirt and dusty road
and pave it or do something with. it. I don't see why a connection can't be made
like the one down Second Ave. and relieve some of the traffic that's on the highways
as you go to work, from the other three arteries. Thank you.
MT6. Lofkin, 180 Shasta St.
I'm Mrs. Lofkin, I live at 180 Shasta St, in Chula Vista. What I'd like to have
to say is, 1,1r. Wagner, I believe, said that First St, would not be widened. Nell, I
think a good example of that, last week I stood up and said my little piece. The
extension running off of Third St. down through the valley by Cloyed's Dairy. I think
that was put in there, what, about three years ago? A year and a half, two years- ago?
It's already being widened. And I said last week that I thought First St., if they
pave it now, next year they'll make it wider, the following year they'll make it wider.
These poor guys on First St. pretty soon are going to get stuck out of the front door
and into the street. And another thing, on this children's situation. I have a small
fry, 4-2- ,years old who will start to school next September. And this gentleman here said
that he came here eight years ago, and he's catching it in the neck. I've only been
here a year and I'm getting it. I don't want my child to cross any highway to get
to school. You keep talking about the older children going out to college. Well.,
if we don't look out for our small fry's in Chula Vista now, there won't be any kids
here left to go out to college. 11ay I ask another question, please? Did I understand
that this first idea on this First Ave: was in 1927? If I belonged to the Planning
Co,-mission, or something, and I couldn't pick up any ideas any later than 1927, I
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think i'd resign..
Chairman Stewart: I must ask you to refrain from bringing personalities into this
discussion.
Mr. Dillion: IThat is the attitude or the position of the School Board in -chis matter
of First Ave. extension going north past the school, or even in.the immediate vi cinity
of the schools to the south. Can Fre have an ansiver to that?
Mr. 7a finer• No communication has been received from the School Poard.
BernarC' iiartin, Black Canyon Rd.
I litre out on Black Canyon Rd. , out to the east of the City of Chula Vista. Do
you now have any authority or Jurisdiction over any portion of that map outside of
this City?
Chairman Stewart: T Understand that the County and the adjoining cities cooperate
ivi-Eh the areas in making the roads and i think the County includes them in their plan
i,rhen they are considered by the County to be n the best interests of all concerned;
Am i right, Yr. Wagner?
t,Cr. ;Yawner: That's .right.
Mr. And that .would be a matter entirely for the State?
Pira ?°Tagner: `.Te �.vould like to see it that way.
Yr. First Ave.
?Thy come through the Country Club, 'through Dr. Skinner's house, alongside of a
lot that I just solc-1 and the man is going to build. a '_noose, through Yr. Rocle's house,
or could you shift over about two hundred feet and come right up through vacant field
all the -,,ray.
Member Bohr stated that he does not quite follcmi the on '►Ln St. ,,ith rears?
£o there bsi:ng a great deal of traffic on the erten-cion of "L" St. to Country Club
Drive, because- something must be done about getting the traffic from the proposed
subdivisions east of the City, out. Traffic must have access, -whether by way of First
Ave. or nl,;" St.,
Member Farris stated that homes are to be built no matter what happens, and the
tray fie proi�leni i,,x.11 still e:i-,ist„
1'ir. Cri-ffis: Do you have any plans of streets, etc., including c'.Flc St. as in con-
junction with your annexation_? An orderly plan of streets in the future going east-
ivard to accompany the e>>lDansion of the City.
iYir. Tagner pointed out on the proposed plan the streets in the county -rhich would
tie in with the City's streets and el_plained that they are in addition to the County
Master Street Plan.
Yr. Reedwarer: ".ill you try a definite coi,rnitment, a solution that would eliminate
this unnecessary crov�rdinQ, fighting and gathering, where you can turn your opponents
to your friends and to people that work i,,rith you. Ts there any :_moans you can establish
a co~n i_ttnent? Can somebody on this Counc.1_1, or from the Council as such, of a Final
elate on which you will pre.t-ent a finalized plan, or will you be open to the suggestion
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of how to find this procedure which is so strongly resisted. Then we can get together
and probably work out a far more satisfactory plan, and we wont t be tying un all our
evenings, our time, and stealing from other commitments for the salve of fighting some-
thing which is so vital to us. Is there any way of getting a definite commitment out of
you people?
Member. Mohr: I would more or less agree with this gentleman to this point, that I think
.that very little, actually, has been gained by all these mass meetings. We haventt
really gotten down to trying to come up with -..hat you people would consider a compro-
mise or what we would consider a compromise. I think that possibly if; and this is
strictly my idea, or my own suggestion, that if possibly a groups a small group, from
the First Ave. Assoc.,, who would have the power and-the faith of the people that they
represent to sit down with the Planning Commission between now and the next meeting
and actually get down to facts and actually learn some of the problems that we are
facing, as.well as we better understand some of the problems that you are facing; that
we might possibly come up .with a solution.
Chairman Stewart: Thank you very much. And to further answer some of the questions
about the number of meetings. This is an informal meeting. As Mr. Boyer explained
earlier, there will be a final reading of an Ordinance, I believe tomorrow, another
meeting would have to be at least 31 days from its adoption_ by the Council, which
would place the date beyond the mid-December Planning Commission meeting. The next
meeting of the Planning Commission at which this subject could be taken up would be
the middle of January meeting because of the necessary delays Mr. Boyer pointed out
after the adoption of the Ordinance 'by the Council; so the next formal meeting as
it appears now, that' we could have on this subject would be the middle of January
meting. I think Mr. Mohrts idea is an excellent one. If therets a representative
from the First Ave. Assoc. who ?would care to consider that, I think that a committee
of 4 or 5 people, or possibly 3; would ,you care to make a suggestion, Mr. Davies?
Mr. Davies: Mr. Chairman, our regular meeting is the first week in December, and in
view of Mr. Mohrts statement, I -think that there Is enough members of the group here who
can consider making affirmative recommendations as to what it would like at your
meeting the middle of December, briefly. In the meantine, in the light of what you've
heard this evening and after considering it, it is likely that some modifications or
suggestions may come from your City Street Planner, Mr. Wagner. lVe can submit, or
meet with him or bring in our suggestions in mid--December to see if its possible to
reach: a satisfactory agreement or understanding or modification by-your January
meeting.
Chairman Stewart: You refer to the December Planning Commission meeting.
Mr. Davies: They're having a December Planning Commission meeting?,
Chairman Stewart: Itd like to point out one. of the things that vie get into on the
regular meetings and if it is possible to appoint a committee,to work together, that
its been my experience, and I think you will agree that most of what we get is ob-
jections, and thatts rather to be expected, and I thank if a committee could be ap-
pointed, that possibly we could look to some other plan of approach to this thing,
because most of the objections to it, there must be some good ideas amongst these
people to assist us in arriving at what they consider a solution to a plan that would
take care of. what we feel will be the traffic load through Chula Vista in years to
come; and I might point out, as I think we have stated previously at these meetings,
that we feel that the situation does not exist in the area between «E« St. and "Fit
St. and Bonita fid. If planning could have been had ten years ago, we wouldn't be into
that situation, you folks would all be in the clear. So I do feel that this group
-11� .
here recognizes that situation and there must be some sort of a plan that we can arrive
at to prevent -recurrence of the thing that we are now faced with, in another five or
_ ten years, and this is the service that this bodyts planning along the lines, and First
Ave. is the street that is getting, in the Planning, that has been chosen; Second Ave.;
I think, or any other street would be confronted with the sane situation; and we do
earncstly wish to find the logical solution to the problem thatts facing all of us. I
don't think there's anyone here but what will agree that if we could have had a plan,
and of course plans are built to be changed if necessity indicates that they should be
changed, they're changed all over. But the purpose of a plan is to give you something
to look forirard. to and it's quite all right to change them along the lire. It might
be pointed out that at a recent meeting,, the 1, aster Plan of Los I_ngeles has been com-
pletely gone over three or four times, as all of,you must be aware who have witnessed
the freevray system they have up.there. But I do think that Chula Vista should. have a
Faster Plan to look forward to, because in the years past in the City that's been made,
vre find that several times a Master Plan has been brought up to somewhere near the
point that s^ce have this one, and I think that those of you i-iho have the best interests
of Chula Vista at heart should try to get together and formulate and get through a plan
that's acceptable to the City. I don't think that a plan can be worked out that there
won't be some people who object to it. I dontt think its possible to do that and I
th:i rk you'll all agree.
Mir. Davies: Mr. Chairman, may i suggest, we appreciate the fact that your re having
these several meetings just for the purpose for which wetre here, to voice our ob-
jections. We vii.11 have our December meeting and I feel certain that the request that
you have made hill be considered, and I hope that that meeting in ll develop a certain
definite request and a committee appointed to deal with whatever members you may wish
to confer with us.
Mr. Di1.lion: Z,,Tetve heard from your i�cio jilu for members of the Com-fission, I wonder
if the other two extinguished gentlemen up there will voice an opinion on this matter.
NL". Po-alter and Mr. Drerr, they haven't said a word all evening.
Member Poulter: I have no comment.
Member Drell: i expected to come here to listen tonight. Ordinarily I do more or less
talking, but I am glad that this approach has come about whereby vie might get some sug-
gestions. My principle criticism of various approaches to this planning, which itve
been interested in for the last 25 years probably, we have a. list of the things here
that i-lretve tried to do over the years, and as 14r. Stewart says, we've brought them up
about so far and then they storped. And we have no Master clan, i lazow this, that a
lot of the ideas which have been proposed by former Planning Commission, Itm not takir_g
the credit for it, but all these Planning Commissions that vret ve had, we have had some
interested and capable persons on the Planning Commission. Theytve tried to do these
things. You wouldn't have that trouble on Bonita Rld. You would have had a wider David-
son St. and Davidson St. would have gone out Bonita Rd., if it had been possible to
follow all the plans which have been drawn. I'll say this, that if the various groups
or individuals who object to certain things would come in with a plan. so that we can
consider it, I'm sure that., well]. appreciate it, because its a lot easier to criticize
somebody else's plan instead of trying to make one of your own. 11_;now that, from
personal experience on both sides of the fence. I am sure that this committee will
develop some alternative, or some positive program, something that we can look at and
perhaps criticize or consider, just as they have done to ours. Wetre trying to work
out these various problems. This traffic problem is bad and if vie had been able to
Mork this out in years past, we wouldn't be where we are now. Of course, no plan
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that you make is perfect, but as they used to say' "a poor plan is better than none."
Maybe along those lines we can work out something. I wish that more people vtrould
show that they take an interest in city planning. VVe have all these problems come up
to us. We've had problems on annexation, problems on trailer courts, problems on lo-
cation bf highways, and all kinds of problems which apparently people have paid no
attention to until something comes up that affects their back yard' or their property
or something of that nature. Itts too bad that more people will not come out ar_d show
an interest in the broader problems that we have to face. Itm sure we need the help
of everybody to make this a better place.
Hugh Skinner, Corner of "Li' St.
I live on one corner of "Llt-St., and Mr. Mohr brought up a point here on running
"Ln St. through to take care of 300 or 600 new houses which he said are going in im-
mediately. 1^Tell,. nt�Ynber one, I just wonder how he knows they are going in immediately,
and number two, is why "L" St. would be cut through to take care of those. I think it
is in connection with-one of its County Planning groups, which would make "L°' Ste
really worse than First Ave. We're not too worried about the development out there,
its bound to come, the streets will come; and we arer_tt worried about letting the
residents there through "Ln St., but its the connection with County roads that I think
is planned to fit into "L" St. Is that tree' or not. There's some way around now. In
other words, the whole thing looks to me ilke a slaughter of your best residential, or
potential residential district. I mean, thatts what you're confronted with in some-
thing like this. You know that one cut through is going to lead into another, or a
bad.situation if you're taking care of the residents. I don't think the 'widening of
"L" St. or the cutting through of "L" St. is primarily for the residents; I think its
for the through traffic.
TJr. Wagner stated that Telegraph Canyon Rd. is to be widened to 100 ft. right-of-
way and an overpass is to be -constructed on Montgomery Freeway at "L" St.
A. IV. Dirmriddie, "L" St. '
Hy name is A. d1. Dinwiddie, I live on "Lr' St. Personally, I was interested in the
First Ave. plan, thatts one reason I came here tonight. As I look at the proposed
plans they seem even worse. Not from the point of view of being critical, but looking
at the long range planning at the waterfront road, and I'd rather have the contem-
plated future improvement of the waterfront as harbor area. I'd rather they tied in
with the development of the harbor. I can see the necessity for that. It will be
necessary to tie in that harbor frontage ultimately. (End of wire recorder).
Mr. Dinwiddie asked if the suggestion couldn't be made to the County to move the
proposed bridge from "L" St. 'to Palomar St, to tie in with Telegraph Canyon 'fid. He
further suggested that the Bonita Rd. problem could be solved by tying into Sweet-
z7ater Rd. .. which is already established.
Fch+vard F. Lane, President of First Ave. Assoc.
Mr. Lane stated that a group from the Association will be glad to meet with the
Planning Commission_, but not on the basis of trading First Ave. for something else.
s
There being no further comments, Chairman Stewart declared the discussion closed.
i3-
IIIAYOR r S COT-N ITT-TEEP 0.1',J ZOi,?IJ TG
It was moved by Miember Drew, seconded by lleirber 11'Johr and unexiiMously carried, that
this matter be taken ulD at the mid—December meeting.
PROPOSAL - Opening of portion of Glover Ave.
It was moved by Member Parris," seconded by Member Drew and unanimously carried,,
that this matter be taken up at the mid-DeceLlber meetinF.
PROPOSAL - Opening of 'ortion of lvladrona St. - A. A. `'liesla_nd.
The m<�tter was discussed at length and the Corunission felt that a fu_rthe con-
ference -,rith 1'r. Paesland was in order.
ADV 0 U Rjj j1i f11�1V T
It i-,ras moved by T4 ember Poul ter, seconded by 1,1ember Drew and unanimously carrier.,,
that the meeting adjourrc, sLie die at 10;05 P.P. ..
Jean
L-4-
tnele, Secretary A--
•S