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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1954-01-18 PC MINS MINUTES OF A REGULAR ADJOURNED MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY- OF CHULA VISTA., CALIFORNIA Held Monday, January 18, 1954 The Chula Vista Planning Commission met in the Council Chamber at Civic Center on the above date at 7:30 P.M. with the following Members present: Stewart' Drew, Smith, Farris. Absent: Members Mohr, Poulter. Also present: City Planner Wagner, City At— torney Campbell, Asst,, to the City Engineer, Johnson. APPROVAL OF MINUTES It was moved by Member Drew, seconded by Member Farris and unanimously carried, that the minutes of the meeting held January 4, 1954 be approved, copies having been mailed to each Member. FIRST PUBLIC HEARING — Adoption of Master Street Plan. Chairman Stewart declared that this being the time and place, as advertised, for the first public hearing on the adoption of the Master Street Plan, that the hearing was open. Chairman Stewart: We would like each person who has something to say to address the Commission at this time and we would appreciate it if you would include whatever you may have to say in the one statement so we can prevent the meeting getting into an open discussion sort of thing. Now, we are ready to listen to anyone who cares to make any comment or suggestions on the Master Plan, and we are going to record it, so if you will state your name and your residence, why we would be glad to hear from any of you now who have any comment to make. Norman White, 446 Palomar St.: I would like 'to ask a question first and then I'd like o maFe a s atement. Chairsian Stewart: Would you state your name and address, please, sir? Mr. White: My name is Norman 71hite, I live at 446 Palomar St., in the Castle Park alstrict on the proposed truck route. I'd like to ask first, why was Palomar St. picked? Chairman Stewart: That, I believe, has freeway access now. Mr. White: Well, Main St. in Otay does have access to the freeway. Inc" you put it on Palomar St., to begin with, you would have to climb a hill east of Third St. You'd have to go down a hill to National Ave. at Fifth St., that means that any trucking going through there would have to climb a hill and go down a hill going either way, and the people on the top of those hills, which is two blocks in there to half a mile would catch all the grinding of these diesel trucks shifting gears, and it seems to me that those gas trucks that would be using that proposed route would be interfering with the residents and fifteen pieces of income property, not to say passing a school, passing a church and passing two trailer parks. It also means instituting the putting in of stop and go signals on Third Ave. or Third St. which goes from Chula Vista here, out to Castle Park; another one on'National Ave., building of more streets on over to Bay Blvd., putting an underpass or an overpass or some kind of a business over the railroad, stop signsl.s on Bay Blvd., a cloverleaf on Montgomery Freeway, and your turn-around or parking, or whatever you do for trucking there. Whereas, if it went on down to Otay Main. St. on proposed 395 as you have it there on the map, the only thing you'd have to put in would be your signals where it meets Otay Main St. and one on Third Ave. or Thrid St., whichever it is, and Main St. in Otay. If it trent West from there, you al- ready have your signals on National Ave., an underpass under the railroad and signals on Bay Blvd. and your cloverleaf already.there on Montgomery Freeway. Now, to my way of thinking, that being a low-level route; you wouldn't have to climb any hills' going through unpopulated area and up past a corner of that income property, it'd be a much better route. Chairman Stewart: Thank you very much. Mr. IRTagner: The problem would-be the same on Main St. As far as populated areas, you can travel down Main St,- and you can see that there is some development taking place there, also. I'm talking about Main and Third, Main and National. There is ample right- of-gray already purchased by the State Highway on Montgomery Freeway at -Palomar St. where it would-co& through. If we- used any of the other streets, with the exception of i'La St., and I want to point out that the further south you- get Tout re getting away from an area of development that we will have to provide for., whether by our Planning today, some other group will have to come-along and plan for it -sometime in the future. We feel that that is a desirable location for this by-pass route. Mr., White: .Well, in that event, you would be using the proposal of usingg -a truck route to increase the chances of extending the road over to Montgomery, Freeway, is that right? Whereas' that is going to cost us, at the present time itis not absolutely necessary because I live up there and I get on the freeway plenty easS You go down to Harborside and go on over to the freeway from there. And its not out of.my way to do that. If you do it now, in order to push it through there you're going to have to move the truck route anyhow, because on Palomar St. if you check that, you'll find that there's more income property there than there .is down in Otay. And besides that, its developing into the habit of, between Fifth and- National they have residential development going on at the present time. They have a church between Fifth and National, one trailer park, another trailer park under construction at the present time across the street from: the existing trailer park, and on the corner of Fourth and Palomar therets a proposed school which is in final stages of being built now. And with those children from the trailer park going to school and to church, I personally don'$ thinly its a good idea. Mr. Wagner: Well, Itd like to point out that the County Master Plan shows another route extension of Main St. in Otay which is, quite a bit south of this particular route that wetre .proposing. We think that there should be another one between Chula Vista and Main Ste and that is the reason why we have selected this route. And I might point out, that when we get to planning anywhere outside of our City limits, all wetre doing is recom- mending to another agency. They may accept them, or they may reject the proposals. Mr. White: At the present time, 1111 St. goes clear on through to the Freeway, is that no rig ? Mr. Wagner: Only from Third Ave. Mr. White: From Third Ave. And it has access with the signals and everything there now. Mr. Wagner: No, there are no signals, except at the freeway, yes. Mr. White: At the freeway. Mr. Wagner: Yes. -2- i Mr, White: And from there, actually, its right by the high school. From there;-d6wn to Main St. in Otay, how far is that? Mr. Wagner: To Main St. in Otay? Mr. White: Its a mile and three quarters, isn't that right? Mr. Wagner: That's just about right. Mr. White: Well, I don't think there should be one at Palomar St. when you go three quarters of a mile and get on an existing road, that's the way I feel about it. Mr. Vdagner: Well, of course, its difficult to picture the area almost completely de- veloped. At the present time, we're apt to think of it as uninhabited territory, which it is. We're trying to'plan for some fifteen or twenty years from now, and we feel that all this area will be developed with home sites and businesses of all .types. I think you're going to find that the area that you mast consider for development ex- tends now to where Main St. goes out to 924 and Telegraph Canyon, way out to the east. That area from there on in is the. area we're trying to provide for. There are hay trucks coming down in through here now, that are coming through the City of Chula Vista, Mr. White: Can't they use 395? Mr. Wagner: Welly yes, they should. We hope that we will get 395. Mr. White: Well, I hope that you do too, because I don't feel like putting that truck rou past my front yard. That means widening the street there, too, you know, Mr. Wagner': The right-of-way is sufficient' I believe. Col. Otis Barteloni: I'm Col. Otis Barteloni and. I live at 330.Palomar St. .and I dis- agree with Mr. White. . I live just a short distance from him, but I disagree with him because we're living in an Atomic Age now, that--.we've got to look forward to progress we can't just allow a few houses that set on a certain street. to be jeopardized be- cause we're trying to put in an access road to a main freeway. I travel that road quite often and I find getting down there on the freeway through Harborside rather cumbersome sometimes, especially when the Rohr plant and the other plants are getting outj, the traffic is congested down there. Eventually, this area is going to build up within the next five or ten years, or maybe fifteen years; and I've lived in New York, I've lived in Baltimore, I've lived all over the East, and in New York on the Merritt Highway they have- a turnoff on every street, leading on to the highway. Yes they do, they have pretty near every street going out of Brooklyn, you can get onto the Merritt Highway anywhere you want to get onto it without any. interference. And the fact that we have one at "Lu St, and'one at Otay should have nothing to do with one being put in down- here at Palomar St., because the State has already provided turnouts on the Montgomery Freeway; theytve spent money down there, and eventually they're going to put it in any- way, so why object to it? We're just holding up progress. Shirley Cooper: I'm Shirley Cooper and I live at 446 Palomar, and I'm in sympathy with Mr. White and all that he said, I shan't repeat it. Frank Zienbach: Itm Frank Zienbach and I live at 1290 Fourth Ave., which is on the corner or Fourth and Palomar. I have three rentals on the corner. Mr, Morris, who . lives opposite me, and he has around five rentals, and today cannot be over here for some reasons, and he is also of the same opinion as Mr. White, and I also share that -3- same opinion. Gordon Burns: I'm Gordon Burns and I live at 1287 Fifth Ave. I have about 600 ft. fronting on Palomar between Third and Fourth, and I share the opinion with Mr. White also. I intend to build that up, perhaps' some day in rentals and residence. I cer— tainly wouldn't want a truck route running through there. . Hocutt: My name is Hocutt and I own the Las Flores trailer park, which was mentioned Mere. Now then, I don't like to get personal, or anything of the sort, but you might ask Mr. White what his business is. I own a trailer park, sure, Mr. White's business is chickens. Well, chickens is all right in their place and that sort of thing, that's certainly true, but on the other hand, if we run trucks through .there, his contention is that the trucks will keep his chickens awake, maybe, and keep them from laying, and would injure his chicken business. . Well, now then, it might do that., I couldn't give anyone any argument on that point. But on the other hand, I know this, that the people that live in my trailer park would certainly appreciate an easier method of get— ting down to the freeway, by extending Palomar St. on through. Mr. White: He made reference to my business-- Chairman. Stewart: Let's not get into an open discussion. As I mentioned before, what your business is, is of no concern as far as the Planning Commission is concerned. - We're talking about streets and highways, and there may be a difference of opinion as far as you gentlemen are concerned. We're not interested.in that particular aspect of it. Mr. White: This is not a personal argument. What my business has to do with that truck route is no concern of anybody elsets. Chairman Stewart: , Well, that hasn't any bearing on the matter that we're here to talk about., an unless you have some comment to make on the Master Street Plan or Palomar itself, why let's let someone else speak. Clarence Sanborn. My name is Clarence Sanborn and I live at 1305 Fifth Ave. right on p of _tHe hill where the gear grinding will come, and I'm .thoroughly in_ favor of what Mr. White said. I'd also like to know, if Palomar comes off the freeway now, it doesn't come off straight.to join the Palomar St. proper, isn't that right? The way'it comes off now, it goes into Anita, doesn't it? Mr. Wagner: That's right, there would have to be a section of it opened. Mro Sanborn: It wouldn't be a straight run through, would it? Mr. j'lagner: It would follow along the south line of the Ranch.. It would come from this point, here, -and would need reopening, which we can show you on aerial photographs, its all clear land through there to this point here. Edward Hayes: My name is Edward Hayes, I have a new subject. I'm curious about what statements, if any, have been made for taking care of the possible private. and public transportation facilities with respect to the new housing area which is going up just southeast of Hilltop and t+L+'. Chairman Stewart: That's a matter that some other department than the Planning Coin mission wo ve to be concerned with. I couldn't tell you, your conjecture would be just as good as ours. I imagine, though, in the normal course of development of an area that transportation usually follows development when it has sufficient concentrated population. But that is something over which we have no control, and it would be the Engineering department or the Police department that probably would have to get into that with you. Mr. Hayes: Well, admittedly I'm very new here, I don't know too much about what's going on. I came down tonight to just find out, but I'm curious, I have heard stated on supposedly good authority, that the roads in the area, around the Country club 'Would not probably be capable of taking care particularly of trucking and of bus traffic in any large capacity. Now I'm sure. if whether or not opening. "Lt' St. .might subject those roads to excess traffic. That's what I'd like to find out. Chairman Stewart: I think that whether or not - in that connection, I think whether or not nL" St. is opened, again, if there is sufficient population in the area justified, there is going to be representation_ made by the people up there to the transportation company, who in turn probably would provide transportation over the present existing streets. Mr. Hayes: Well, that was the point I wanted to find out about., because as I understand it' although I'm no engineer., the streets apparently are not considered as capable of taking heavy excess traffic. Chairman Stewart: That would be something for the street department and the transporta- tion people toget into. Mr. Wagner: May I ask this gentleman a question? Just what streets are you referring to? The ones within Country Club Villas, the existing subdivision? It. Hayes: Yes, nKu St., Palomar, ISLI., Sierra Way, San Miguel., Hilltop. Mr. Wagner: Well., „L" St. and most of those are Mattoon Act streets of concrete. I'm not too sure of their properties, I don't know whether Mr. Johnson is acquainted with it enough, hers just started with the City a few months back., I don't know whether hers too familiar with the properties of those Mattoon Act streets, do they carry busses? Mr. Johnson: I imagine they do., Fred. Mr. Hayes: With what little I know about it., the opening of "Li' St. may very well sub- ject the other streets in that area to excess traffic. Mr. Wagner: If I ma.y, I would like to just explain the Planning Commission's thinking. We know., of course, of this 160 acre development, and we believe that the proposed open- ing was a desirable street opening for a major street, and also to provide a major street access from the 395 overpass or connection if it ever goes in, to the new proposed over- pass that's to be built here on Montgomery Freeway., and I understand that construction is due to start in March. R. S. Seabrook: Gentlemen, my name is R. 'S. Seabrook., 385 Hilltop Dr., and I am tenta- ive y representing the San Diego Country Club. I'm one of its Directors. There are a few questions that I would like to ask in connection with what I have heard regarding the acquisition of a part of the northern bomidary.of the property of the San Diego Country Club for a road, that's the one you speak of., of putting through IVI St. I was wondering if any footage has been discussed or planned in connection with the acquisition of the northerly boundary of the Country Club property. Mr. Wagner: Do you mean the length or the depth? -5- Mr. Seabrook: The depth. As I understand it, the tentative -plan is from Third clear through to Country Club Drive, which would-run the entire length of the golf course. Now, you're thinking about going 40 ft. south from ,that boundary line. I just wondered, Mr. 17agner, you more than likely..have, but I don't know whether everyone here is familiar with the obstacles and the damage to the Club property which might ensue to the taking of 40 ft. of the northerly boundary. On the second hole, the first hole and the second hole parallel that right-of-gray, that fence line. And within about., I would say, ,20 or 25 ft.- of that fence line, it jogs there a little bit, there is a row of old Eucalyptus trees that runs for practically the entire length of the property and that forms the northerly boundary of fairways one and two. Also, the edge of the club building proper, including the caddy-house and the locker rooms, etc. abut right up to within two or three ft. of the property line. Its one of the most difficult things to picture the changing of a golf course in that each hole and each location of each hole has a bearing on the rest of the golf course. That also holds true in connection with our building there. If you take a certain group of lockers and grille room and caddy house and golf shop from the designed layout of the Country Club buildings, it becomes a very difficult job to again take a part of that and put it over someplace else, to the end that you have a working area, because it doesn't fit the golf course, it doesn't fit the whole-- the number one tee and the rest-of parking areas, etc. There is some vacant property to the north of the Country Club along there for quite an area. The Board -of Directors of the Club object very strenuously, as do the members, to the taking of sufficient properties there to disturb that layout that vie have. In other words, take that whole row of trees, put a highway along there where you drive from number one tee and when you drive you're going to drive right out towards that new highway, which will create a certain hazard, that at the present time the trees eliminate that hazard, due to the fact that they stand up there 60 or 70 feet high and stop, most of all, the tend to go over to the right off the property into that irrigated field. I would like to hear some of your comments, Mr. Wagner, in- connection with the thought that you have given to those particular problems that I have mentioned. Mr. Wagner: Well, in the first place, I'd like to point out that originally the right- of-way for IVI St, was open between Country Club Drive and Third Ave. and when it was closed, the south 40 ft. went to the Country Club and the north 40 ft. went to the prop- erty owners adjacent thereto. So this would, in effect, be a reopening of a once opened street which was planned for under the early planning of the City when they laid it out in a network of 80 ft. streets a quarter mile apart on the Map 505. We realize, of course, that there are some difficulties in here, especially with the location of the building, the location of the trees. We're primarily working not only toward a better community, but highway problems. We're concentrating on highway problems and we realize that wherever we plan a highway we're going to run into some of these problems, but we're doing our very best to think of it as routing for future street openings, routings. The money that would be necessary to put in the improvements for such a plan may not be readily available for many years to come, and it does not mean that by planning for it at the present time that we're going right out and try to take over property and put in the improvements. The money just isn't there. But its long range planning trying to alleviate situations that have arisen, such as this Bonita St. - First Ave. situation. C. A. Butler: Is it not true that this 80 ft. street that you plan runs into narrower sRreets as you go into the Country Club area? I was trying to figure why you need 80 fto streets. going into, across that area from Third to the Country Club Drive and then run into narrower streets as 'you come on up to the Country Club area. Is there a reason for that? I was just asking for information. Mr. Wagner: This is an 80 ft. right-of-vay all the way out to Third Avenue and it is an 0 f . right-of way from Country Club Drive out to Hilltop Drive. So vie are merely con- necting two 80 ft. rights-of-vay with another 80 ft, right-of-way. Mr. Seabrook: Does the City own that right-of►�Vay across that property..at the present time, 86 t.? Mr. Wagner: , You mean on "L" St. and Country Club Drive? Mr,- Seabrook: Between Third and Country Club Dr. on "L" St. Mr, Wagner: No. Mr. Seabrook: Well, then, actually there isn't any right-of-way there. Mr. Wagner: No, the City doesn't have any right-of-way.. Mr. Seabrook: What is the possibility -- this action that the Planning Commission is now taking, is that setting up a definite footage in their plan, showing a certain width street, etc.? Is that the object? I wondered if it had been explored with the thought of saving the beautiful row of trees there, and there's going to have to be some pro- tection if there's a highway out there and you have two fairways running along the side of it. There's going to have to be some very high protection, to keep the people that are travelling on that street from being hit, or else you don't have a golf course, now one of the two. Has it been explored as to what is the minimum that you could take from the northerly boundary to save those trees along that full length. Mr. Wagner: I believe the trees are practically on the"centerline. Mr. Seabrook: They are about, I'd guess just about 15 feet. Mr. Wagner: In order to-meet 'the State Highway standards for keeping it under Gas Tax funUs for streets of major importance, we have to plan for at least an 80 ft. right-of- way. Our travelways of the future we assume will be 64 ft. between curbs' 64 ft. of travelway. Mr. Seabrook: Under the circumstances, where there is very little development on the north, coudn't it ,be arranged to move the northerly edge of the right-of-way another 25 ft., let's say. It could not only save a number of trees, but reduce the cost tre- mendously of the work that would be necessary to do. to the Country Club buildings. To lose those trees and to reduce the width of those fairways, and approach the green on number two is a serious consideration to the golf course. C. R. Conklin: My name is C. R._ Conklin. I live at 877 Country Club Dr. As you know, I've Ueen interested in the development of that particular section for some 30 years. Those trees that he was just 'talking about are just 35 years old. They're probably the most beautiful trees that we have in the City of Chula. Vista. We used to have many more, but they're gone now. If you will come up to my house, you gentlemen, and look over the roof of my house and down on the view to those trees, it will make you heartsick to think that they would disappear. Now, on your map its very feasible. On this map its a very feasible thing to connect up this ,highway to the overpass. It looks fine, but those trees extend this distance.through here probably about half a mile. I presume Mr. Rocle's house will have to come- outpand as you come up here, there's another house with the caddy house; the caddy house will have to come out, Mr. Peter's house will have to come out. You'll wreck the front of the Country Club entirely. To pass on the hill, those curves are 36 ft. from curb to curb, that isn't enough. That street is solidly built. now, "L" St., and every one of those .homes must give way to major streets, thereby cutting down this setback which is now atlleast 30 ft. And what have you done? You've got just one street, it's not a through arterial highway, as I understand it, it cer- tainly shouldn't be. Beyond that you've got an impossible grade right there. You've —7— got a grade that today is 8%. I haven't surveyed it, but Itu say its 81o. You can fill and cu"t, but when you get through you'll have a bad situation. Now, you'll find that therets a terrible lot of opposition. Vire could have filled this place full of howling citizens, therets only a few of us down here, its cold and rainy. And I have never worked against this thing at all, never have I talked to anyone on it. Now, then, you spoke about this right-of-;way. You spoke that you would like to open that right- of-way. That right-of-way is a closed issue. That land was always owned by the Country Club and the land north. It has been owned, over which they gave an easement to the City for street purposes. The City of its own volition gave up that right, thatts through, there's no such thing as a former road, I mean, it was former, but when the City gave that back that was the finish of its legal hold on that ground: Now, we could talk for hours about this proposition and I think this is the most important, be- cause this is in the City. This is all future, a beautiful dream we hope to do, some of us won't be here when this comes to pass. We feel, the ones that have given it , thought, that your problem, to get this new district., opposite here, and this district here, which has been annexed to the City, which I have been interested in, weld like to see that Hilltop opened. Twenty-five years ago we talked before the Council about opening it, it was feasible then, and its certainly feasible now. By simply opening up Hilltop out to Telegraph Canyon and connecting to this road into nJ", which is a good street, and the overpass., lots of us feel it should have been put there originally, .you would relieve all that condition-at least for the time being. In years to come, maybe the Club will be rotten by that time. Mr. Wagner: On the local street plan., which is just adjacent to this, there is a plan for an extension of Hilltop Dr. to Telegraph Canyon,Rd. that can be widened to an 80 ft. street if the Commission so desires, and made a street of major importance, I think it could be added to the system to relieve this situation which faces us down in here. But, I'm glad that he mentioned the one thing, that the Country Club life may be some- what limited, and that that is one of the reasons why we were thinking in terms of this future reopening. 0. H. Kyle: One more thing, Itm 0. H. Kyle from 28 "L" St. Itm a member of the Country Club as we_U3 and you spoke of a straight street® Well, engineering viise, perhaps, that's a beautiful thing., but what we are doing today is constructing bigger and better highways to go faster and faster and kill more and more people. Why do you have to put in stop signals along your nice straight streets. Letts have a few curves in them. John Fry: My name is John Fry of the Santa Fe Land .Improvement Co. Now, I would like Yo know a little bit more of the development west of the Montgomery Freeway. Santa Fe Land and Improvement Co. owns quite a large holding along with the City out there., and it was interesting to note that you say you wanted to move the bulkhead and pierhead lines outward? Well, as I remember it, Itm not too familiar with the situation, there's a very few accesses off of the Montgomery Freeway over into that side of the property, and if I understood it correctly, you talked about 300 ft. streets over in there. That's kind of funny to put in a 300 ft. street with maybe a 24 ft. access road. Is there some kind of a plan, or two-way system, or parkway in between the roadways? What is it that needs a 300 ft. right-of-way in a place where you can't get to or probably never vrill be able to get to. Mr. Wagner: I realize that there are limited accesses from the freeway itself that we have taken into cognizance of on this plan. We've proposed some additional connections, whether we'll get them from the State Highway system, we don't know, but we do know that we have control, the City has control of the outer highway, which is known as West Bay Blvd., from which we should be able to get additional accesses if we care to go ahead with condem_hation or for accepting gifts of the properties for street openings. But this —8— 300 ft. width was decided upon by the Harbor Commission of the City of Chula Vista, and in preparation of the original map, the City Planner proposed highways of 150 ft. in width. And the Harbor Commission at that 'time felt that that wasp-it t sufficiently wide. They have studied the situation in San Diego at the south end of Fourth and Fifth and Sixth, and around in through there, where, I don't know if any of you people have had any difficulty in coming in off Tdontgomery Freeway and trying to get into the City when the trucks are angle parked in there, you just can't drive a car through there some- times. And those are 80 ft. right-of-ways. However, they are not developed to their full width as far as the travelway is concerned; and our Harbor Commission felt that it was good planning to- request, or to plan for 300 ft. and then, if at a future date, a portion of it could be left open for off-street parking and loading zones, which would be within the right-of-way. Or, if necessary, it could be closed and turned over to the adjacent property owners., of course where Santa Fe is located. Mr. Krames has had copies of that proposed map. Its basically the same as this plan here., with the ex- ception that we have moved the main north-south highway 500 ft. east of the bulkhead line. The original plan showed that reservation along the bulkhead line, but after con- ferences with the Harbor Dept. in San Diego, they felt that it was wise to reserve at least 500 ft,, for warehousing and dockage adjacent to the bulkhead. L. J. LeRoy: Gentlemen, my name is L. J. LeRoy, I'm Industrial Agent for the Santa Fe mai r'T oadj an one of the representatives of the owners of about 400 acres of land over there where all that crepe is hanging on the left side of the map. ' I appreciate the fact that we have to have roads to get to the industrial areas' you can't stall that., but talking about main access roads here, -talking about 60 and 80 ft.., now we're getting down to where we talk about 300 ft. roads. A 300 fto road is about the equivalent in width, I guess, to a city block, an ordinary city block., the average one anyway; and along the.-waterfront you no doubt have to have wider roadways than you would have laterals and back roads. When you take and divide this piece of property up in the manner that is shown there, you are eliminating., or practically eliminating any possible chance of having any industry dorm there. And I am- sort of wondering if maybe industry is not wanted in that particular area., or in any part of Chula Vista., of course that includes the entire waterfront of Chula Vista. We've held that land there for, well I can't say .exactly how long, but its been quite a number of years now that we have owned it., and we .have planned on locating industries in this part of the country and as San Diebo bay area is gradually filling up, they of course, are going to go farther away and they have to get down into areas where land is available. The same thing applies up in Los Angeles territory where Los Angeles is built up to the point where there is no more vacant land, so naturally.industries are going back in the interior or farther away from Los Angeles. Now the same thing is going to apply here. You don't have any industrial lands in San Diego. National City is pretty well built up, and now we have Chula Vista. Now we come along to the point here where we're going to cut it up crossways, Criss- cross, with streets 300 ft. wide, which is wider than any highways or freeways or turn- pikes that I've ever heard of, even in this Atomic Age. I never heard of anything quite that big. I., as a representative of the owner, protest rather vigorously the plan to build a lot of highways of that type west of Montgomery Freeway between there and the water. When the time comes, I know that the City is joining with other cities in this bay area to establish a port authority and our company., the Santa Fe Railroad., is very active in assisting in any way it can to develop that program.. We know that when that program is developed, there is going to be need for industries. Now the type of industries that you're going to get are., or might be, ones. that would require con- siderable acreage. Now, if you chop it all up into little squares, you're defeating the purpose of this valuable land and this nice acreage that you have here. Now you mentioned a while ago the moving of the pierhead and the bulkhead lines, and in doing so, of course, you would have to make a lot of new land. I don't know Whose sort of Job its going to be to take on the expense of making all the land, I assume that when the Government takes on the job of dredging the bay, you will- make a lot of land., you -9— will fill in those places, and that wi11 of course, no doubt be of considerable benefit to all of us who are engaged and interested in industry. Then the question comes to my mind, will that be considered as Chula Vista Tideland property that cannot be util-' ized for industries or can't be sold$ or can only be handled on a lease basis under the present laws. I would like to know, I have been working with different representa- tives of the City of Chula Vista in the past, and others, and I always got the im- pression they were interested in getting industry down here, but I'm just wondering if there has been some kind of a change brought about and they're not now interested and would prefer to have some wider streets that don't go anyplace and don't start anyplace. And to get to the price that entered into 24 ft. roads along there. I think that if these gentlemen here that have spoken before are worrying about the traffic over on the other street, they'll get off of it and go down one of those 300 ft. roads. I think you want industry down -in this part, and if so, then I don't think they want to have it cut all up and criss-crossed with wide streets of that nature. Chairman Stewart: I would like to make a comment here. As Mr. Wagner outlined before you made your statement, the Planning Commission and Mr. Wagner's recommendation had originally planned 150 ft. streets in the area down near the waterfront. Now, the Harbor Commission, appointed by the Council, were ordered to bring a plan in to the Council that as you see has been placed on this map. , The whole situation is a plan and I don't think that its anticipated developing, paving the street area down there. I do think its important that a plan be layed out so that the people who are interested, that come here and want to go down there for industry and have a plan to look to, but certainly there's nothing to prevent variations from that, I think plans are something to work to, and I don't see any reason why a combination couldn't be provided if the industry is one that likes Chula Vista and it fits into our community. I don't believe that anyone has intended to do anything that would discourage anyone coming in here or to try to place anything in the way of the Santa Fe Company developing the property when the time comes. Mr. LeRoy: I know of a firm right now that's interested in coming down here, they're 000Emg T r a thousand acres of land now. They want to be on the waterfront. Of course, I realize that you haven't got a thousand acres of land there, but they would take every- thing you had from Montgomery Freeway out to the deep water if they came in. Chairman Stewart: If this industry is manifestly utilized, probably the community wouldniE be interested in it, but certainly I think it would be interested in considering any industry that does come along and see if its one that Chula Vista would be glad to have. Mr. LeRoy: Of course you must realize too, that industry pays some pretty good revenues and pretty good taxes into the City. I don't know about -your payroll, but your taxes and your business taxes and your personal propdrty, etc., too. About 6 to 1 on a resi- dential tax. Mr. Wagner: Is it better to have many smaller 80 acre industries, we'll say, than one axe ge one thousand acre one? I'm not certain of the correct answer to that question. But I would like to state that these areas in here all total up, almost 160 acres in each case, in there. Of course, .when you're looking at this map, its brought doom to such a small scale. that it doesn't look like much of an area, but just visualize this line being 300 ft. wide, and spread it out if you can, visually. I,think that the Harbor Commission was quite energetic in that proposal, however, they were quite firth also, in their request that those reservations be at least 300 ft. wide. Their pro- posal, of course, is flexible, and we are, in effect, attempting to adopt as part of our master planning their proposal. -10- Otto Vaught: My name is Otto Vaught, I live at 10 "Ll' St. and I'd like to get back to this entrance to the park, this new addition that we have up there. I attended a Council meting the other night and after hearing what's gone on t6night, it seems as though that you can put in highways wherever you want if they're needed. Now, one of the Councilmen here the other night, he put up somewhat of an argument that we didn't have enough entrances to that addition up there, which we haven't. As I know' there's only one. Well, he didn't get any place. Now, after listening to this conversation here tonight, I would think that you could put other streets and other entrances to that park, Country Club Park- addition. Now you only have the one, and Ifd just lilte to know why that can be' done, but the other night they knock his horns down because there's nothing they can do about it. Well, that seems rather strange to me. I think this Counci man sitting right here is the one, I'm not sure', but I believe you're the one that made that statement. Dick Halferty: I'm Dick Halferty, 28 Palomar Dr. Fred, would you favor me, please, by pointing out what I'm going to suggest. That we are asking for some relief in that area, in that new development. Travel relief for us, which I believe the Planning Com- mission could, and should favor us with. Now, can you show us the Telegraph Canyon Rd., there, Fred? Telegraph Canyon, which is unimproved property and is a waterway and not of a great deal of value for anything except as waterway or perhaps roadway com- bined. Now can you show us, please, Fred, where Telegraph Canyon, the waterway crosses "K" St. or Country Club Dr, Mr. Wagner: . This heavy bluish line that wiggles all around is the centerline of the major drainage ditch which goes through the- southeast portion. Mr. Halferty: With the cost and expense of improving "L" St. and the amount of terri- tory w ic�i `ivould be disturbed, couldn't we use the waterway, improve that into a road- way to join with Third Ave. at Third and "L" St.? We assume that we're going to have to use "L" St. as an access to the freeway because the State says we have to. I'm not entirely in sympathy with that, but if they say that they're going to put an overpass there, we'll have to use it. There are two schools at present on "Ll' St. There's an- other one going in on "L" St. in this Country Club Park area. We don't want to pass the schools with. 80 ft. truck routes or directly used travelways. I wish the Planning Commission would study and come up with a favorable suggestion as to using the Telegraph Canyon waterway as an access to "L" St. and bypass the Country Club tract and bypass or eliminate the possibility of having to widen "Li' St. alongside of the Country Club, get rid of these trees and part of the Country Club clubhouse, and the entrance to the Country Club is also a congested intersection. As it is now, It would be trebled or quadrupled were "L-l' St. put through. Mr. Wagner: Originally, our Master Street Plan did have a proposal to open up a new major street through that particular area you refer to, Dick, and it was decided after a field trip by the Planning Commissioners that was very expensive. We had some en- gineering estimates -from former Asst. City Engineer, Mr. Wheeler, and there were many corssings if we left the drainage ditch in its present location. However, if that drain- age ditch is redefined into a new location, either by a ditch with travelways on each side of it, or perhaps a ditch to the south of it or to the north, whichever appears the most feasible from an engineering. standpoint. That is a possibility, and then there's the possibility of opening up Hilltop Drive down through the draw to Telegraph Canyon Rd, north of Vista Way. This is proposed on this Secondary Street Plan, and rights -of- way have been planned for in a proposed subdivision in that area. It was eliminated from the former Master Street Plan at the suggestion of some property owners there, who objected to it, although on the basis of engineering estimates, it was most feasible. -ll� Mr. Halferty: It was a rough engineering estimate' was it not? I mean, we haven't had - anything very concrete. Do you suppose a re-estimate of that would change the picture any if we 'eliminated the necessity for graded sections at 110 St. and First? It should be worth looking into, I believe. Chairman Stewart: Its very expensive, they did tell us that, because if we didntt change the watercourse, there were six or eight crossings, I believe, through the present drainage area which would result in bridges at those places. That proposal brings up the question of whether people would use that after you open it up. You can't prevent them coming on to "L" St., can you, with the opening there. You can put the road around there, but the shortest distance if they're coming toward—or going west, is down "L" St, and working their way all around to "K" St. rather than going to Hilltop Dr. and then, Dick., I think they'd still go through the Country Club area. I,think the fact that you put a road through there, unless they're going north, I don't believe it would be feasible. Mr. Halferty: No, .I mean to eliminate the necessity of extending "L" St. out to pick up that traffic thatts going to come in off of Telegraph Canyon Rei., Mr. Stewart: Yes, but those coming west, they, I don't believe would use that, I think you'll find that they would still come through the Country Club area. Mr. Wagner: I think that Dick is talking about Telegraph Canyon traffic, the other gentleman was talking about Country Club Park traffic. Is that correct? With respect to that, this new link route that I spoke of running north of Telegraph Canyon Rd, may_ help that situation. Its true, I believe, that Mr. Stewart is correct in assuming that people living in this corner pocket, here, will endeavor to use the existing streets wherever they possibly can, or follow the line of least resistance, but as this entire 160 acres develops out to this point, taking in four quarter quarter sections, Naples St. is to be opened, and some of the people in the south end naturally will use Naples Ste as a route out. Now, if they do open bus routes in this area, that's possible that they might come down from the' Hilltop housing area where the bus routes now terminate, they could .come down Hilltop and up this new approach to this subdivision area and then back out around Naples St. Mr. Conklin: Now, on "K" St., when it was first talked of, we were .all very much in favor of having a through, fast road, and I believe if we made that connection down Hilltop Dr. routing into the Telegraph Canyon which would be extended down the watenray, that you'd find that the people wanting to get to work would take that road; because you could reach that part if it were more or less a freeway, and it could be, rather than to filter down through the Country Club's curved streets, Country Club Drive is a bad drive for traffic., and you've -got the flow in and out of the Country Club. I be- lieve that the master street right down HiLLtop, get on that road and go right straight through. I, myself, living a block away, go back to Hilltop and come down because I can cut right down through on "Ln St. into- San Diego. Now, as for" the engineer, I can't argue about the cost of engineering; but that entire strip of land is more or less today not being used. A few carry-cells and bulldozers could put that waterway any place you wanted it in that soft ground with far less expense than the cost you'd have to pay the Country Club for wrecking their buildings. Itm sure of that, because that water is a very small creek, except as I say, every 20 years it gets pretty ram- bunctious. But the waterway could be straightened. At present, if we have some high water there., its going to flood some homes, a man is going to wake up some day and find water in the basement, no question about that. But, with this road through, you'd ac- complish two things. Weld get our freeway and put that water in its place, where it belongs, which,. as I say, it overflows, maybe every ten years we have a little high water. I think that's a very feasible plan and I'm certainly for that. 12- Mr. Wagner: In an official motion, the Planning Commission stated that it would not con- sider., at that time, reactivating, sine the property was involved with that piece going across there. And Mr. Rocle, .who owns a great portion of this property that this diag- onal highway would cut through, strongly objected to it. I dontt know how he feels about it now. Mrs. Cooper: I have another question. How many truck routes are you planning between trLn St. and the southern boundary of National City? You're planning three south of nLu St., how many are you planning north of I'Lir St.? Mr. Wagner: We're only planning one truck route south of Chula nista. Mrs. Cooper: I know, but how many are you going to have betuveen the southern boundary. of National City and nLn St.? Mr. Wagner: We have none planned. Mrs. Cooper: Are you going to have all that territory without truck routes? Mr. Wagner: The County of San. Diego has provided for a belt line freeway thatts to terminate on Montgomery Freeway, indicated by this wide line here, but whether they plan that as a new truck route' I couldn't say. Mrs. Cooper: Well, what street will that be? Mr. Wagner: At present, the plans call for it to be located right midway between the two cities. But I have heard that there is a new plan being studied to bring it up 30th St. Mr. -Hayes; May I say that I am very highly in favor of Mr. Conklin's suggestion of Me extension of Hilltop, and I would also like to recommend that Hilltop be extended to the South, also, so that Naples St. wouldntt be open, particularly with respect to that new housing area. IVIr. Butler: Diverting a little bit, I understand that on the plan that nHn St. would run on through back somewhere back out into the hills, I don't know where. But there is a plan, so I understand, thatts on the Master Plan, which would run through a portion of my house and another house, and highly improved property, on past. I think I suggested one other evening, if Bonita St., if at First and uHIt St. instead of run- ning nHu St. straight on through, at First and I'M" they could ran through that ravine' which.there is nothing there now, its not developed. They would hit no houses, they would eventually run through same farm land back in there and would go, I think, any.- where ny.where they wanted to go back onto the east. I would like that to be considered, rather than going straight on through and opening a street through. houses and highly developed property, east of Hilltop Dr. Mr. Wagner: Of course, you know we do have an overpass on the freeway, that makes tiH.n St., one of our most important east-west streets. We, .in this proposal would utilize a right-of-way that was planned in the Cook property for an extension for this area, and the right-of-way is routed southerly of your house. We know it wouldn't be considered by you as an advantage, Itll admit that, but we're trying to get this traffic out to this .395 again,• and we've routed it southerly on a large radius curve. We have an existing 80 ft. right-of-way right up to Hilltop Dr. That is one of the reasons why, rather than coming through here and trying. to condemn portions of lots, if we can get a new 80 ft. right-of-4vay, since we were using the existing right-of-way out to that-point and then veering southerly and easterly. —13— Jack Ryan: My name is Jack Ryan. I live on 'ILII St. Has the Commission considered extending IIK" St. to 395? That is., east to the proposed 395., extending 11KtI St. directly f east to 395. Mr. Wagner: Well., topography is very bad in there for extending that street through. (End of recording) Mr. Ryan stated further that it was.his understanding that it would cost approxi- mately $250,000 to move the overpass on Montgomery Freeway from I'L" St. to "J" Ste and that in his opinion., the southerly portion of "L" St. near Country Club would not be used by anyone as ingress. In conclusion, Mr. Ryan stated that the people along "L" St. wanted a secluded place to live and that the Planning Commission owes a duty to the people to carry out their desires. Chairman Stewart asked if there were any more comments. - There being none, he declared the public hearing closed. REQUEST FOR VARIANCE - Pacific Tel. & Tel. Building - Parkway. City Planner Wagner stated that when the original'plans were submitted to the Com- mission, they contained a. shaded area on the front of the building' although the check of the plans showed no noticeable appurtenances. However, this shaded area was a 30 inch wide planter box which does not comply with ordinance requirements. Mr. Wagner asked if the Commission would agree to including in the variance a privilege to allow the planter box to occupy a portion of the front yard. It was moved by Member Smith., seconded by Member Farris and unanimously carried, that the planter box be allouved. DISCUSSION - Zoning for Recent Annexations, City Planner Wagner presented proposals for zoning of recently annexed property: 1. Sweetwater Delta - possibly M-2. 2. Shapov property - recommended C-2 by the Mayor's Committee, 3. Country Club Villas l and 2 and Country Club Heights - R-1. A lengthy discussion followed, in which City Attorney Campbell suggested that any sub- divisions annexed to the City, would., upon completion, take the lesser zoning. It was also suggested by the Commissioners that one or two evenings be devoted entirely to the discussion of rezoning. DISCUSSION - Future annexations. City Planner Wagner outlined the annexations of property discussed with him by land developers and informed the Commission that the annexation of Country Club Park had progressed to the adoption by the City Council of the ordinance. It was moved by Member Farris., seconded by Member Smith, and unanimously carried, ,that the Planning Commission recommends that, consistent with good planning principles,$ the remainder of the 160 acres of Country Club Park be annexed immediately, and further recommends the annexation of any other contiguous territories desiring annexation. DISCUSSION - Proposed New Zone Map and Ordinance - Mayor's Committee Recommendations. Dr. Calvin Lauderbach, Superintendent of Chula Vista Elementary School District' was present and discussed the .zoning of property commonly l,moimn as the 11-PI, Street Ball Park. The Commission expressed willingness to further discussions and indicated a desire for the opening of Garrett Avenue south ,.of 'IF" Street. —111•_ It was decided to devote a great portion of the February lst meeting to discussion of the zone plan and ordinance and to the major and local street plans. DISCUSSION — Master Street Plan. After viewing the proposals of the City Planner on the secondary and local street plan, it was moved by Member Drew, seconded by Member Farris and unanimously carried' that the City Planner.study the extension of Hilltop Drive north of "FLIT Street and add it to the Master Street Plan, ANNEXATION PLAN — Member Drew. Member Drew displayed a map showing his studies for a gigantic annexation program, involving approximately 30,000 acres around the present city. As water may be available soon, it may be a desirable area for future expansion, according to Mr: Drew. Com— missioners agreed to further discussion on the subject. TENTATIVE MAPS — County Subdivisions. City Planner Wagner informed the Commission he had received copies of two tenta— tive maps of property" located in County territonj and had been requested by the County Planning Commission to make comments on the two maps, as they come within three miles of the City limits. He showed the Commission the maps and read his recommendations to the County Planning Commission covering Collinsts Record of Survey of 1/4 Section 113, and Country Club Park No. 3. The Commission agreed generally with the recommenda— tions of Mr. Wagner. ADJOURNWENT It was moved by Member Smith, seconded by Member Drew and unanimously carried., that the ieting adjourn sine die, at 1415 P.M. JeanSteele. Secreary i5-