HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007/06/26 Board of Appeals & Advisors MinutesMINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING
BOARD OF APPEALS AND ADVISORS
CITY OF CHULA VISTA, CALIFORNIA
June 26, 2007 City Council Chambers- City Hall 5:15 PM
276 Fourth Ave. Chula Vista, CA 91910
CALL MEETING TO ORDER: Chair West called meeting to order at 5:15 PM.
ROLL CALL: Romo, Flach, Turner, West, Buddingh, Heironimus, Buencamino- Andrews
MEMBERS ABSENT: Vice -Chair Turner and Member Heironimus
MEMBERS ABSTAINING: None
CITY STAFF PRESENT: Jim Sandoval, Director of Planning and Building; Brad Remp, Assistant
Director/Deputy Building Official of Planning and Building; Sharon Marshall,
Senior Assistant City Attorney; Eileen Dimagiba, Senior Office Specialist
(Recording Secretary); Diana Vargas, Senior Administrative Secretary
OTHERS PRESENT: Scott Vinson, Carmelita Vinson, Andrew Griffin, Richard Dascoli, Charles
Moore, David Bright, Bill Hall, Patti McKelvy, Barbara Brown, Lupe Soto,
Isabel Hall, Lisa Cohen, Jose Uribe, Jay Norris, Chris Lewis, Jose Morales,
Brad Wilson, Dan O'Hanlon, Angelica Martinez, Karen Vargas, John Smith
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Chair West said opening statement for procedure for this special
meeting.
DECLARATION OF EXCUSED/UNEXCUSED ABSENTEEISM: Vice -Chair Turner and Member
Hieronimus have excused absences.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 9, 2007 and June 11, 2007 (MSU 5-0-2-0)
NEW BUSINESS:
A. Property Transfer Report
Introductory remarks from Brad Remp, Assistant Director/Building Official for Planning & Building.
Stated that time for group presentations would have time limit of 15 minutes, and individuals each
would have 5 minutes to speak. He introduced Jim Sandoval, Director of Planning & Building to
speak.
Jim Sandoval, Director of Planning and Building introduced himself and presented
information on the proposed Property Transfer Report ordinance. He said one reason
the City of Chula is proposing this ordinance to Council is because in the last 5 years,
illegal construction in homes as they transfer ownership has been an increasing problem,
and the City is not in the condition that it used to be. Code Enforcement has increasingly
been dealing with this issue daily; this issue being more a health and safety issue above
anything else. The City has also talked to other communities in California that have
adopted similar ordinances like this one, with positive results. He said he feels that this
ordinance is a tool that would help solve these illegal construction problems.
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2. Brad Remp spoke and said as a result of the last Board of Appeals & Advisors Meeting
on June 11, 2007, City staff has made the appropriate changes to this proposed
ordinance and have provided additional information after hearing comments from the
Board and the public that attended that night. He said the purpose of this special
meeting tonight was at the request of the Board, so additional information and comments
can be conveyed. Mr. Remp started his presentation by saying that the purpose of this
ordinance, which was to facilitate the sharing of information between sellers and buyers
of property in an effort to detect and resolve illegal construction. This ordinance requires
sellers to obtain a report from the City and provide it to the prospective buyer prior to
completion of the sale. The report will contain the City's information about the property
including zoning, building permit history, and any active Code Enforcement cases and will
cost $70 to obtain. He reiterated that problems identified as a result of the information
will not preclude the sale or transfer of the property, and that voluntary on-site inspections
are not required but will be provided upon request. Mr. Remp introduced some changes
made since June 11, 2007 meeting. First one was in section 15.21.030 on page three,
changes made to specify listed or "offered" properties; another change made under
section 15.21.050 confirms it's the property owner's responsibility to secure the Tenant's
permission to make the property available for inspection; under section 15.21.060 on
page 4 changes to further clarify intent of a voluntary inspection; under section 15.21.090
on page 5 changes made regarding remediation. Mr. Remp made a presentation
addressing questions from the 3 -page memo sent to the ' Board from the Pacific
Southwest Association of Realtors. Mr. Remp said with this proposed ordinance, the City
has constructed the least invasive method in dealing with a significant Code Enforcement
problem the City has. He provided examples of other cities in California with similar
ordinances. He stated that the City of Escondido has a current proactive inspection
program specifically for this issue. He also addressed a particular Code Enforcement
case that had illegal construction and had 26 beds in the house and was being rented,
and a health and safety hazard of a bbq set up providing heating to the house.
3. Mr. Remp presented a "sample report" of how the Property Transfer Report would look.
This is the report that would have a fee of $70 and the report that would be obtained from
the City's database system indicating the most accurate building permit history on a
particular property, and any open or outstanding Code Enforcement violations on the
property, from the database system.
Questions/Comments from the Board:
Member Buddingh had a question for Mr. Remp about the details of section 15.21.060
and whether the scope of inspection is for the "on-site" inspection. Mr. Remp said yes.
Member Flach asked Mr. Remp if this only addresses residential properties and not
commercial. Mr. Remp said yes, properties that are single -family -dwellings.
Member Buencamino-Andrews had a question about whether or not the memo from the
Pacific Southwest Association of Realtors (PSAR) already addresses this ordinance and
how memo mentioned that realtors already have 7 different forms that require disclosing
this information. Mr. Remp answered by saying none of those forms indicated specifically
the responsibility for the seller or the agent to do permit research with the City and to
provide that information.
4. Member Buddingh made comments referring back to the memo from PSAR and their
disclosure forms. He referred back to section five on the disclosure statement in bold that
says, "Buyers and sellers may wish to obtain professional advice and/or inspections of the
property and to provide for appropriate provisions and a contract between buyers and
sellers with respect to any advice, inspections, defects...". He says that this ordinance is
doing exactly this. He stated that realtors need to become more trained in disclosing this
information to potential buyers, and with this ordinance the City will just provide the
information required. He asked the public if they would like to be sued. He also asked
with a show of hands that were realtors, residents, and non-realtors and residents of the
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City of Chula Vista. He stated that he doesn't see what the big issue is with this
ordinance, because nothing about this ordinance is delaying the transaction of the sale of
the home. He said it's just a $70 informational report. Several members of the public
shouted back answers to Member Buddingh. He stated that realtors are already
supposed to do this anyway, and again, this ordinance is not a bad ordinance.
5. COMMUNICATIONS (PUBLIC COMMENTS/WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE) (SPEAKER CARDS):
➢ Scott Vinson, Real Estate Agent, stated that he is opposed to this ordinance because he has never
reviewed building permits and that they are not experts in building codes. He also stated that the City
should not have this report at the "point of sale" because that is not the right time for this to happen
➢ Carmelita Vinson, Real Estate Agent Coldwell Banker and Scott Vinson's wife, stated she is
opposed to this ordinance because realtors should not be held responsible and properties are taking
longer to sell and it is not right to do this to them. She said, "Who would be liable?"
➢ Andrew Griffin, resident of Chula Vista for 25 years and licensed general contractor, stated he is in
favor of this ordinance. He talked about a current Code Enforcement case he is dealing with and
property owner's last name is Murel. He said they purchased the house through a realtor in the City
of Chula Vista, and did not know that there was a remodeling project that was recently done without
permits to that home they purchased. He said that before they closed Escrow, the Code Enforcement
officer advised the realtor of this problem, and the realtor "had the audacity" to ask the Code
Enforcement Officer to wait to go forward with this case against the Murels, until he closed Escrow.
Code Enforcement notified the realtor and the seller of the violation. However nothing was done
about it on the realtor's part, and Escrow closed, leaving the Murels with this big illegal construction
problem. And he said that it was not until the Murels moved into the home that they discovered that
the remodeled bathroom was lacking plumbing piping and they started complaining to the realtor
about it, and then they learned the severity of their problem. This Code Enforcement issue is still
going on right now, costing the Murels thousands of dollars, and they have no recourse against the
realtor because that real estate company is now bankrupt with dozens of judgments of fraud
outstanding against them. Mr. Griffin ended his comments by saying that this ordinance would be a
big benefit to everyone concerned. The buyer would be protected from the possibility of a disaster
like the Murels', the City Of Chula Vista would be given the resources to protect the buyers, and
realtors would avoid the possibility of problems of a seller failing to disclose an unpermitted
improvement.
➢ Richard D'ascoli, Pacific Southwest Association of Realtors, is opposed to this ordianance. He
stated that he is very disappointed with the way this whole process has worked with the City so far,
and is disappointed that the City didn't go to the Chamber of Commerce with is. He said that this is a
big "business issue" for the City and would not be good for Chula Vista. He also mentioned that the
first paragraph of the staff report that states, "...enhance the City's ability to resolve Code
Enforcement violations.... is not clear and doesn't see how this ordinance will help resolve that
because Code Enforcement is not involved anywhere in the process. He also asked what will the $70
report would cover?
(Richard D'ascoli went over his time limit of five minutes, there becomes confusion on the exact
procedures on time limits for a group presentation.)
➢ Sharon Marshall, Deputy City Attorney for City of Chula Vista speaks and says that Mr. D'ascoli
has gone over his time limit and that according to Council Rules, if you are speaking for an
organization, you can receive up to thirty minutes to speak, if requested, but other members from that
organization cannot speak after you.
➢ David Bright, Attorney for Southwest Pacific Association of Realtors, addresses this time issue with
Sharon Marshall and says that we are breaking Brown Act Compliance in that when a person speaks,
they don't speak on behalf of every single member, they are speaking on behalf of SPAR and
members have the individual right to speak, and he doesn't understand why they are not allowed to
speak after Mr. D'ascoli.
➢ Sharon Marshall, Deputy City Attorney for City of Chula Vista responds by saying that Council
has adopted rules pursuant of the Brown Act in order to be able to regulate meetings in a timely
fashion and those rules say if you are speaking for an organization, you are to tell the Chair, and the
Chair will give you up to thirty minutes to do your presentation, but that means you are speaking for
the organization and the members of that organization. David Bright asks if there are rules on this,
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and Sharon Marshall says that there is and they are the Council Rules. Mr. Bright wants to know
what rule that was exactly. Sharon Marshall, leaves the dais to go and get a copy of the ordinance. It
is ordinance 2.04.240. There is back and forth discussion between Sharon Marshall and David Bright
on this time issue that goes on for a couple more minutes. It is settled that Mr. D'ascoli is here
representing the "entity" of PSAR, and will be allowed to speak for fifteen minutes. Mr. Remp also
steps in and says that he was responsible for telling Mr: Dascoli that he can receive fifteen minutes to
speak.
(Mr. D'ascoli is given another ten minutes to speak by Chair West, and his attorney David Bright will
be given ten minutes to speak)
➢ Richard D'ascoli continues his presentation and states concern if the city's internet goes down, and
if the report will not print, this will delay the sale of the property. He asked who will be liable for this?
He also states that he disagrees with the statement on page 2 of staff report, in the first paragraph
that says that "Staff investigations have revealed that frequently such unpermitted work represent
significant fire and life safety hazards." He says that City has not provided enough numbers and
statistics to confirm this, and this information is vague, and he reiterated that this is not a good
business decision for the City.
➢ David Bright, Attorney for Pacific Southwest Association of Realtors stated his opposition to this
ordinance. He stated that in 1987, California passed Law (Civil Code 20.79.3), and states it is
excluded as a real estate agent or broker and they are not responsible for pulling building records or
permits. He said this ordinance is contrary to this California law. He also said their education does
not require this, and real estate agents are not qualified to do this. He also said that agents are to
"stay out of this (property transfer report) issue" and to put this burden on the seller or agent will
cause problems.
➢ Bill Hall, former president of Chamber of Commerce, stated his opposition to this ordinance. He
stated seven concerns. First, he noted the decline in home sales and how the market is bad.
Second, he said that this is not a good time to experiment with this kind of thing. Thirdly, he talked
about the intent of the report and how it says the intent is to achieve the goal of code compliance. He
says that this report does not do this. His fourth concern was about the open government implications
and problems the City has in giving notice to the public on this proposed ordinance, with supporting
details. His fifth concern was that providing this report will be time consuming. His sixth concern was
that this ordinance would impact the west side of Chula Vista more than the east side. His last
concern was in regards to the long-term impact on revenues for the City. He lastly said that this
ordinance is poorly timed.
➢ Patti McKelvy, realtor, stated her opposition to this ordinance and said she believes Chula Vista has
risen because of "points of sales". She says that the City is stringent on everything they do. She
says this ordinance will have negative impact on the City and this ordinance will be another "layer" in
the home buying process. She also said that if this is such a big problem with the City, why haven't
more than 27 cities in California adopted this type of ordinance.
➢ Barbara Brown, Chula Vista resident and a realtor, stated her opposition to this ordinance. She says
that the Association of Realtors is the only body that lobbies for the homeowner and the only ones
that protect "private property rights". She says that she would not know how to interpret this report to
her buyer.
➢ Lupe Soto, realtor and resident of Chula Vista, stated her opposition to this ordinance. She said she
"represents 5 of the 27 cities in California that have adopted this type of ordinance". She stated that
in six months, this report could be different and asked who will be responsible for what? She said
that she as a realtor isn't required to know Code Enforcement.
➢ Isabel Hall, Realtor with McMillin Realty, stated opposition to this ordinance and said that this
ordinance will indeed impact the sale of a home, and delay the escrow and sale process of the home.
She said that the buyers are "free" not to get this report from the City and that this ordinance will be
detrimental to the west side of Chula Vista.
➢ Lisa Cohen, CEO of Chamber of Commerce, stated her opposition to this ordinance and that it will
not promote a business -friendly environment. She referenced the letter given to each of the Board of
Appeals & Advisors members and stated that this report will make the City worse.
➢ Jose Uribe, realtor with Prudential, stated his opposition to this ordinance by stating that realtors will
not be able to interpret this report.
➢ Jay Norris, from PSAR, Chamber of Commerce, & First American Title Insurance Company, stated
his opposition to this ordinance and said that Title Insurance Companies already have coverage for
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this kind of problem. He said that since 1995, they have had 300 title claims and that these statistics
say that this is not a huge issue.
➢ Chris Lewis, from McMillin Realty stated his opposition to this ordinance and stated that realtors
should not become the "policemen" for Code Enforcement for the City.
➢ John Smith, realtor and homeowner, stated opposition to this ordinance and said that disclosures
already "strongly advise" to do something like this stating it is the "buyers responsibility". He said that
Code Enforcement is the City's responsibility and that it shouldn't be forced on the realtors. He also
said that this would be unfair because homeowners that have no violations on their property would
have to pay $70 for the report also.
(Chairman West calls for a 5 -minute break)
➢ Jose Morales, homeowner and businessman, said that he is in favor of this ordinance. He stated
that he bought a property had a garage that was illegally converted, and he had to pay thousands of
dollars in fines to correct this problem because his realtor did not tell him that this construction was
illegal. He stated that he also has another house that he bought that had an illegal 3rd bedroom in it.
He said that he is currently working with code enforcement and for this particular case so far, he has
paid about $900.00 in fines because the seller did not disclose to him information that this house is
supposed to be only 2 bedrooms, when it had illegally had an extra room. He said that he is currently
struggling to make the money to correct these problems, but says that it's been hard. He said that no
one told him to research building record information on the properties he was buying; something he
says the realtors should have told him to do, and he is very happy that the City of Chula Vista is
considering a law on this. He says that right now, tonight, he is hearing realtors talk about nothing
but money and profit. He reiterated that he hopes that the City will pass this ordinance to help solve
these houses that are selling with illegal construction. He said that realtors should be able to afford
the $70 fee for this report, when he is paying thousands of dollars in fines for something he didn't do.
He also said that it is not fair to have the buyer pay all of these fines in illegal construction, when they
didn't know about the illegal construction when they bought the house.
➢ Brad Wilson, general ccntractor and realtor, stated his opposition to this ordinance. He said that he
as questions on the statement in the ordinance that says, "significant reduction in illegal building" and
questions on how the issue of when the "add-on" was discovered would be addressed. He said that
this ordinance would hurt -western Chula Vista
➢ Dave Wilson, stated that he is probably one of the few realtors that is in favor of this ordinance. He
said his reason being that he is soon to be retired from the real estate business and he is looking for
another career where he can make additional money, and would be interested in maybe setting up a
consulting firm for the City of Chula Vista in helping to provide this property transfer report. He also
added that the more you pass ordinances like this, the bigger the "real estate file" gets, and more
money will be made.
Questions/Comments from the Board:
• Member Buddingh asked Brad Remp how long is it for an on-site inspection and if City staff
would be able to handle the "flood" of inspections for this ordinance? He said that he would like
to see the "waiver language" in this ordinance, asked if there is relief for seller of any future
lawsuits, and asked to include language of "reimbursement" somehow to the seller.
• Member Flach commented on how the main thing that realtors are fighting for is "buyer's
responsibility" when it is supposed to be the realtor's responsibility for this protection.
• Member Romo commented on a time -constraint issue, and the issue of the Title Insurance
Waivers. He said he wants to address these issues. He commented to the public that these
codes are in place, and this ordinance is being proposed for heath and safety.
• Brad Remp, addressed the issue on Title Insurance coverage. He said that if it says on this
"insurance" that Title Companies insure what is not caught in transaction process, he would like
look into this further. He also asked if all transactions get this level of insurance. Several
members in the audience indicated yes.
• Member Buddingh, asked if a person can get more than the allotted $25,000 in insurance
coverage if they paid more? The response from the audience was no.
• Member Buencamino-Andrews asked Mr. Remp if there would be a back up computer in place
with all this information, just in case the main computer breaks down? Brad responded by
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saying there should be no delay in retrieving the information. The City has an elaborate file
retrieval system.
Jim Sandoval asked how long is the term of this insurance? And how many years? And could
Code Enforcement send these cases back to the Title Company? He commented that this
meeting was a good education point for our staff and that we were not aware that we can send
our code enforcement cases related to this issue, back to their title companies.
Approval of Ordinance:
MSC (West/Buddingh) (4-0-2-1) Motion was made to recommend adoption of the Property
Transferred Report to Council with specific changes and modifications. It was recommended
by Chairman West to adopt the ordinance as it was presented tonight, but to incorporate
additional changes and modifications into the modified ordinance. Staff will ask City
Attorney's office to look into proposing "waiver language" and also for staff to looking into
the Title Insurance issue. Mr. Remp stated that the action taken tonight on this ordinance is
not a final adoption, but a recommendation.
6. CHAIRMAN'S COMMENTS/REPORTS: None
7. BUILDING OFFICIAL'S COMMENTS/REPORTS: None
8. ADJOURNMENT: MSC (West/ Buencamino-Andrews) (4-0-2-0) Member West adjourned this meeting
at 8:28 PM to a regular meeting in the Planning and Building Conference Room #137 on Monday, July
9th, 2007.
BRAD REMP, C.B.O. /�
ASST. DIR. OF PLANNING & BUILDING/ BUILDING OFFICIAL
SECRETARY TO THE BOARD OF APPEALS & ADVISORS
MI ES AKEN .
EILEEN DIMAGIBA, SR. OFFICE SPECIALIST
PLANNING & BUILDING DEPARTMENT
(RECORDING SECRETARY)